Pro's & Con's of tire chains vs snow tires??? teach me

The major problem im having is finding a decent set of snow tires for as cheap as I can. I've been unemployed off and on for 8 months now, and I don't have much spare money to spend on such things...

Andrew

Hit up the used tire places, or Craigslist. If you've got a common wheel size, you can go to a pull-a-part and maybe find a wrecked car with snows mounted.

If there are any hardcore rallycrossers in your area, they might have used snow tires for sale cheap.

I was flipping through the tire ad in my GRM a few days ago and thinking that snow tires looked like a bargain at 60-70 each. We don't get any snow to speak of in TN, so I don't have an excuse to buy a set.

Bottom line is that they are a necessity if you live in the snowbelt, and much cheaper than wadding up your car. Probably cheaper than the insurance deductible.

Since your money is tight, I will take the other side of the argument.
Safe winter driving is all about the tires, have the best you reasonably can.

Dedicated winter tires are the best that you can get

Personally, I have spent 25 years of winter driving in Michigan and Northern Ohio and in that time I have typically always had a "driving job." I have never had dedicated winter tires but I did/do always make sure that I have ample tread.

What I want to be clear on is that chains are no substitue for tires with ample tread.
Search the classified ads and the sale items and put on the best tread that you can afford starting with your drive wheels first.

Michigan doesn't have a choice.

Snow Tires are it.

I live in Wisconsin and I've never had chains or snow tires, but I dont see any real steep inclines. I did make the decision this morning that my A6's tires have too little tread for this blizzard and took my Cherokee with BFG All-Terrains instead.

DeadSkunk wrote: I've put my summer tires (Kuhmo ASXs) on the Miata in January and gone out for a drive on bare, dry, cold days. They don't stick or stop very well when temperatures are in the teens.

The ASX is actually an all-season. Try that with summer tires and you'll discover what low traction means :) The Kumho XS we run on one of our cars become quite a liability when temperatures get close to freezing.

93gsxturbo wrote: Keith, what do you use for snow tires on the trucks? I have Baja Claws on my Ram 2500, and they are OK, not great.

We don't get enough snow around here to justify the really good stuff - I don't have any Hakks at the moment. I have a set of Blizzaks in a Miata size (that tire is a triumph of marketing over ability in my opinion) that came off some junk car. The grey Toyota in the picture is running Michelin LRX tires and the red truck is on BFGs - a surprisingly good snow tire. The Jeep, the only vehicle I have that's set up for real snow use and the car we use for ski duty, is running some sort of dedicated snow tire but I forget what. I think it's a Kumho.

Snows aren't expensive. The consequences of not having snows can be - a set of four snows and steel wheels will cost about as much as a fender.

Get cheap snows.

By that, I mean get the smallest wheels that will fit over your brakes and the skinniest tires with tread at the junkyard.

going from a 205 15" to a 165 14" improved my snow traction exponentially. I got the 165's for free because they were tiny and useless, but they were all-season and had tread on them. Look how tiny the tires are:

If you can wait it out, wait it out. But if you reduce the contact patch in the snow, you improve your traction (think more weight over smaller area, or why its bad to drive a corvette with 295 width tires in the snow)

Growing up in the Northern Sierras (4500' elevation), I became intimately familiar with chains, studs, and winter tires.

Daily Drivers get M+S-rated Allseason tires. Always. To this day, I can't break that habit, eventhough I've moved off the mountain.

There is absolutely no replacement for a set of chains. When it gets bad, even the best studded snow tires won't get your where you need to go. I suggest against cable chains unless you're just buying them to get past the CHP checkpoints on your way up the mountain; get a set of the good ones if you expect to ever have to use them. That, and when you buy a set, buy a set of mechanic's gloves and throw them in with the chains. Les Schwab has a pretty good deal going where if you never use a set of chains, you can return them at the end of the season, if you're worried about the ~$100.

I hate studded tires. There's only ONE place they help you, and that's ice (okay, maybe really hard snowpack, too). Other than that, they cost you traction. If I have my way, I will NEVER put a set of studded tires on a car I own for the rest of my life. That being said, if were you live sees a lot of ice, they're gonna be the hot ticket... 'til the ice melts.

Did I move back to the mountains, I would definitely have a set of the narrowest steelies that I could find that fit on my car, with the narrowest set of non-studded snow tires I could get my hands on (it's astounding the difference in traction between the same car on 185/75s and 225/50s).

chains are for the mountians. If you are in an area with regular road maint. a set of snows will do fine. Had a set of Firestone Winterforce on my '87 Firebird, the car was unstoppable in the snow.

yeah here in wisconsin studded tires are illegal i think, but the blizzacks on my old jetta did the job 200% better than i needed. totally +1 on the no inclines here, but i spend the summer in upstate new york, good and hilly. i'd want something studded there i think.

I love snow tires. New set of Blizzacks every other year and you get to feel superior to 90% of the people out in a blizzard. Not ure what the magic is in these tires, but it does work as advertized.

Snow Tires are the only way to go. I have new Yokahama IG 20 ice gaurds (cheaper than the W drive) for winter and I was passing SUVs who had trouble getting traction today in the snow in Chicago. Shoot, I haven't seen my traction control come on once yet and that is on a 400HP RWD CTSV.

Now on the subject of buying used tires, be VERY VERY careful.. I have been burned only once by my car forum breathern and it happend this year from a guy in Canada. All 4 tires were torn apart form the internal beads to the rim and he assured me the tires were good enough for at least another 2 maybe 3 seasons. Be careful of buying used tires you cannot inspect or let a local tire shop inspect for you. The guy scammed me (granted I got 4 CTS V 6 lug 18" rims out of the deal) by over charging me for the rims. Luckily my local discount tire was able to hook me up. If an Andrew Garlock of Toronto Canada is a member or the GRM community, beware of anything he may be selling.

daytonaer wrote: Get cheap snows. By that, I mean get the smallest wheels that will fit over your brakes and the skinniest tires with tread at the junkyard. going from a 205 15" to a 165 14" improved my snow traction exponentially. I got the 165's for free because they were tiny and useless, but they were all-season and had tread on them. Look how tiny the tires are: If you can wait it out, wait it out. But if you reduce the contact patch in the snow, you improve your traction (think more weight over smaller area, or why its bad to drive a corvette with 295 width tires in the snow)

wonder if that could work with a 2000 grand am? I'm tryin to get some tires on the girlfriend's car for the winter and it's got 215/60r15's on it now. Plus, she's a "spirited" driver to say the least. Studs were going to be a definite ( living in NH, Vt) but if I can do something different...

Cheap, off-brand snow tires FTW.

That is the only way to fly in a snowy area. No thanks on the chains--I'm far too lazy. I don't need another reason to hate the snow.

Deals are out there, no question. I just snagged a set of four 195/65/15 studded Hakka 10s for my SW2 for $75. Studs are in good shape, and the tires, while used, should get me through at least 2 seasons. The way I go through cars, who knows if I'll have the Saturn that long. Plus $50 to mount them on the steel wheels that came with the car, and I've got 2+ winters of use for $125. That's cheap insurance, to me - especially since I live in Maine, and even when it's not snowing there's still a lot of ice around.

I'm also trying to wheel and deal my girlfriend into trading me back my Saturn alloys from a few cars ago to slap on the wagon for summer... Eventually the no name all-seasons that came with the SW2 will go on them, but right now they have mostly worn Azenis. I will DEFINITELY try just one autocross in the Saturn before they completely wear out...

you might even want to watch regular tire places for good deals. last year i got a set of miata-size michelin x-ices mounted on steelies for cheap. i think like $50/wheel. not bad for new tires mounted.

Blizzaks aren't so bad in my opinion. I've not gotten stuck with them in the last two years if useing them, and I deliver pizzas, so while most of our roads are not to bad, some driveways can get terrible.

Joey

Blizzaks are good if you buy them new or with very few miles on them. They have two different kinds of rubber on the tread. The first one is the supper sticky in the snow kind, when that goes away you get a more conventinal snow tire that is good but not great.

I got my first set the first winter we had our 9-3. It had performance summer tires on it, Yoko ES100s, and it was just scarry. So I scored a set of nearly new Blizzaks with wheels for cheap and now every car that we have has a set of snows, you will really be amazed at the difference.

I will also second getting the smalles wheel that will clear the breaks and a narrow tire. Keep an eye on CL and you should be able to come up with something cheap.

If you replace Blizzaks every year or two, they'll work okay. If you try to run them any longer, you end up on the harder rubber and they don't work all that well at that point. Their big selling point is that soft gooey rubber that's designed to stick to ice and burns off like a rain tire in the dry.

Meanwhile, a set of Hakks will give consistent traction for 5 years or more.

I just pulled the trigger on a set of General Altimax Arctic tires. I had them studded. They came in third place in Consumer Reports' latest tests. The Arctic is a re-branded Gislaved NordFrost 3, which was their top-of-the-line snow tire a few years ago. (If you've not heard of Gislaved, they're a Swedish brand that has made tires on par with Nokians; General's parent company, Continental, bought them recently. For years, if you bought snows from a Volvo or Saab dealer, you got any kind you wanted as long as they were Gislaveds.)

For a 185/65-15 (or 195/60-15 -- I don't recall ATM), they were $72/each from Sears, not including studding.

My friend with whom I did the winter Alcan 5000 put a set on his '85 Saab; they replaced his aging Hakka 2s we took on the event. We did a winter TSD rally in Canada last month and found that the Generals are just as good as the Hakkas they replaced. On an ice racing forum, I found a comment by a guy who won his class that year on them, confirming that they are equal to the Hakka 2.

Incidentally, a number of European tire tests have shown that, for some tires, studding is not a liability for wet braking performance. So it's a bit of a generalization to say that studded tires wreck wet braking performance.

Regarding CL snow tires: I've found that it's a bit of a gamble. Make sure the tires aren't old and hardened. I've given up on used snows because of hardened tires that still had plenty of tread.

Regarding putting snows on the front wheels only of a FWD: that's all fine and good during normal driving conditions but you will not fare well in an emergency maneuver, especially if you have summer-only tires on the rear. IMHO, it's penny-wise, pound-foolish to go this route.

Move south below the snow belt. There may be a few days a year where you should stay at home but otherwise the weather does not affect your tire decision.

I am trying to get my E30 to be suitable to drive in the winter. Part of my winter involves going to my grandparents old house which is on the top of a hill with a gravel road. (deep snow gets cleared, but if its under 3" they arent clearing it)

the car is a 86 325e automatic with an open diff.

Last year with the Khumo spt no-seasons I had to get a running start and barely made it up on my 4th attempt. This year I had to have my moms boyfriend tow me out of some fresh snow pulling up a slight incline on grass.

I have a spare set of bottlecap wheels that are slated to get studded snows, but should I consider a LSD required for the car for the snow? (I am pricing right now, but want to figure out now necessary it is)

Blizzaks, FTW.

I grew up in PA and ONT. My snow tires were Pirelli summer-only rubber in 285/40-17 on a RWD car. If the snow and ice were bad enough that I couldn't carefully negotiate the streets, all of the businesses were closed anyway. That means I built a fire in the fireplace, put on my slippers, picked a good movie, and brewed a pot of coffee.

I have had a couple vehicles (like my 78 chevy pickup 2wd with an open diff) that really needed help. That truck I could usually get by with just A/S tires and I kept a few bags of sand in the bed. The weight helped with traction and I could always toss a few handfulls of sand under the tires to help.

During my few winters in ONT, I stepped up to Blizzaks.

LSD is nice to help you get moving, but I actually prefer an open diff for snow driving. If you happen to give it just a bit too much throttle, an LSD scoots the rear sideways. An open diff just spins one wheel and usually keeps you straight.

Chains are ancient technology that is great for extreme conditions in slow, technical snow/ice driving. Their practical application in the real world is pretty stupid

Not experienced in other brands but picked up a one season old set of Pirelli Scorpions on cheap alloy rims from a CL ad, tires arrived in Tire Rack carry bags, they were $200 for 4.

Those tires transformed the Town Car. The old girl runs down ice covered roads with dry road grip, the only difference is longer stopping distances.

I will definitely buy another set when these wear out, but so far they are still like new and into their 3rd season.

I found a good deal on set of Green Diamond tires ($40 each brand new!) And I must say they are awesome! They have a very hard rubber compound similar to Hakks and the silicca carbide nuggets embedded in the tread look really cool

They are also amazingly grippy on ice and snow. Stopping distances are impressive, and I have plenty of forward traction in my '91 318is beater with open diff.

Just for fun, last night on my way home, I decided to go up the steepest hill in my neighborhood, twice. There was lots of evidence of people getting stuck in the fresh snow including two trucks stuck in the ditch. I went up in first gear at a constant speed with no wheelspin and then decided to try it again. I started from a standstill at the beginning of the slope, and went as fast as I could. When i reached the top 100yds later I was doing 40mph!

I've run winterforce and icebear in the past and these blow them away.