The telling part will be when they ask the guy you hit if he remembers one or two impacts. If he says two than good luck proving you didn't hit him before you were hit.
The telling part will be when they ask the guy you hit if he remembers one or two impacts. If he says two than good luck proving you didn't hit him before you were hit.
I just recently finished a call w/ the adjuster and will hopefully see an appraiser this week.
As a side note, I looked on our local CL for cars around what NADA said I could possibly get for my car. Im sure I will find something, but its not looking promising. Its was my daily, but technically my wife's car and she drove it on occasion. Lets just say that she would much rather us be able to keep the devil we know versus learning a new one.
So, we'll see how this works out. I've got a volvo 850 that hasnt been on the road in over a year, and was due for some maint then. I might drive that until it dies and maybe then be able to buy the minivan that she wants.
Ok. I met the appraiser this am and have a few more questions. He feels like it can be repaired and wont be written off.
1) He seems to think that the floor pan in the trunk separated from the frame and took the bulk of the damage. He feels that the floor pan( in the trunk ) can be replaced easily. Does this sound reasonable? I havent inspected the rest of the trunk area myself but will this afternoon.
2) The estimate for the work seems kinda low to me. Would you use one of the approved body shops of the ins company or pick one yourself? We have one that we used years ago and were happy w/ but they're over an hour away. There is a second shop that my wife used locally, but they are on the approved list.
Definitely see a doctor. I know of someone who was backed into in a parking lot and ended up with 3 herniated discs in her neck.
Also, an "approved" body shop usually has to warranty their work for as long as you own the vehicle.
The car doesn't have a "frame" like old cars did, or large pick ups still do. It's a unibody. The floor pan is a part of that unibody. If it's ripped, yes it can definitely be replaced. Fairly common procedure. The trunk floor often has a lot of contours in the spare tire well that once compromised are impossible to repair properly, so the floor gets replaced.
Use whatever shop you want to. If you're comfortable with the approved shop from the insurance company, go with it. If not, use your own. A lot of people get concerned about an approved shop, but they're independent shops. A good shop is on the approved list for State Farm, Nationwide, Allstate, Progressive, etc... The key to all of it is to be 100% sure you bring a copy of the insurance company estimate to whatever shop you pick. If the shop has an issue with the estimate, or finds additional damage, they need to be able to call the appraiser to have them come back to reinspect the vehicle for a supplement. The estimate the appraiser wrote is NOT a "final, this is it" estimate. It's...well...an estimate, so it's very important the shop has a copy
Ok. Now I feel alot better about this whole appraisal thing. We like the job that the approved shop did( its body shop thats owned by a local chevy dealer ), so I'll go that route. They're close to work so I can drop it off during lunch. And they also have a rental car company onsite so that helps as well.
I saw a doctor last week, and he was comfortable w/ what he's seen so far. He basically suggested that I take aleve for a few days since I dont have any extreme, unusual pains and to see him in a few days. The overall soreness has gone, but I still have one or two areas that I feel every so often. Im keeping an eye on those areas and going from there.
One thing I didnt expect was the letters from the lawyers that I found in my mailbox when we got back in town last night. I guess that I should have expected it, but it just seemed kinda funny to receive so many letters from people that care about my well being. :-)
Yes, those lawyers have runners who do nothing but scour police reports and send letters. They'll bring you into the office and tell you exactly how injured you really are, because they're really good at medical things. They'll then send you to their chiro office that they have no affiliation with or get no financial benefits from. Then they'll send the insurance company a very modest demand for money. 
Klayfish wrote: Yes, those lawyers have runners who do nothing but scour police reports and send letters. They'll bring you into the office and tell you exactly how injured you really are, because they're really good at medical things. They'll then send you to their chiro office that they have no affiliation with or get no financial benefits from. Then they'll send the insurance company a very modest demand for money.
The funniest one Ive seen so far is a chiropractor that also has a law degree. One stop shopping at its best.....
I have owned a car with a replaced trunk floor pan and the seams all rusted out later. Those were Toyota original parts on a Lexus but the body shops can't weld or seal the seams as well as the factory can. Nothing on the car had rust except the repaired parts. It did hold up for over 10 years so on a 2001 Accord with 230k miles longevity may not be a concern.
Not for me. Maybe my oldest son, but not for me. Thats good to know, though.
I would go to the ER especially if you have insurance. In the end there insurance pays.
dculberson wrote: I have owned a car with a replaced trunk floor pan and the seams all rusted out later. Those were Toyota original parts on a Lexus but the body shops can't weld or seal the seams as well as the factory can. Nothing on the car had rust except the repaired parts. It did hold up for over 10 years so on a 2001 Accord with 230k miles longevity may not be a concern.
Your car wasn't repaired properly. With all the weld through primers, seam sealers and rust prevention products available today there's not excuse for that.
ddavidv wrote:dculberson wrote: I have owned a car with a replaced trunk floor pan and the seams all rusted out later. Those were Toyota original parts on a Lexus but the body shops can't weld or seal the seams as well as the factory can. Nothing on the car had rust except the repaired parts. It did hold up for over 10 years so on a 2001 Accord with 230k miles longevity may not be a concern.Your car wasn't repaired properly. With all the weld through primers, seam sealers and rust prevention products available today there's not excuse for that.
Yep. Shops have all the products and tools needed to weld and seam seal every bit as good as the factory...and trust me they ask insurance companies to pay for a lot of seam sealer, weld through primers, etc...
I just left the shop w/ my first estimate. He shows me where the frame rails are pinched on both sides of the car in the rear, and suggested that I may have more damage in the trunk area behind panels.
He seemed upfront and honest about everything that I asked him, but basically said that just what we say today would add another $2k to the appraisers est. and would prob total the car. Im going to take it to another shop tomorrow. He said that the frame CAN be pulled out, but most of the major shops in our area wont touch this for liability reasons.
Ive got two more places that I want to take it to, though.
While a kinked rail can be pulled straight and to proper length, the weak spot will remain. It will make the next accident zestier.
There are industry standards for fixing frame rails. Typically, if they have accordioned over themselves then the section should be replaced.
ETA: I use the term 'frame' for description only as it is technically incorrect.
The guy I spoke to at this shop said the exact same things you guys just did. The policy of his shop with the amount of kink my rail had would be to replace them. He guesstimated the true est for repairs to be north of 4grand. Im going to a small mom and pop place tomorrow to see if they will simply pull it straight. Ill deal with any damage that occurs if another accident happens.
What are you looking to do with the car? Save it or total it? If the rear rails are kinked badly, as ddavid said (and he's in the business too) they really should be replaced. If that's the case, I'm also betting the rear body panel is done (the piece behind your bumper) and there could be additional unibody damage. You may find a hole in the wall shop to tie a chain around a tree and "pull" it out for you, but make sure you balance safety with needs. From the sounds of it, if a shop calls in a supplement, the car will be totaled by them. At that point, you'd need to follow the procedures for flipping the title as mandated by your state. You'll really want to look into it, as some states only allow a "parts only" type title. OTOH, if you just go to a corner shady shop you may get what you pay for. Sorry to say it, but it sounds like it may be time to write this one off.
I appreciate all of the honest input. There is about 1/4in area that is bent on both sides. My goal is to keep the car if at all possible, and still have a vehicle that is "safe" to drive. We're not in a position to pick up a car note right now, and I dont have alot of confidence in the used cars/ vans that I've seen in my assumed price range( ie .. NADA/internet/my guessimate of approx $4k I would get for my car).
I will try to post pics of the frame rails and other damage later today. Klayfish/Ddavidv/anyone ... what would u guess as the value on a 2001 Accord LX w/ 233k miles?
Just as an update, we decided not to try and get the car fixed, drive it until tax season and then use the check to help buy a minivan. After two est. saying the same things or worse I have decied to cut my losses on this and treat it as a throw-away car for awhile. It needs a timing belt, dist gasket replaced, radiator, etc and I dont have time to so all of these repairs right now.
The funny thing is, my backup car( 1994 volvo 850 ) needs a timing belt and has a RMS leak. So, we'll see how this goes....
Here are pics of the accord...
Left frame rail... https://www.dropbox.com/sc/ii03bnaz3z93o2q/AABNAR1geqUFhBkkOh99KB-fa
Right frame rail... https://www.dropbox.com/sc/t6snj6ono57njs7/AACemwTTxtuT44Pxrx2itTJ6a
Closed trunk lid.... https://www.dropbox.com/sc/lsfxk7mw04xnp2s/AADPAFPRca9-Fz6HjYNvMMP1a
RR trunk floor pan separation... https://www.dropbox.com/sc/uox9ok5grsk4yvf/AACjDOVKxketxh9oWpTCNPgea
Cracked front grill.... https://www.dropbox.com/sc/3svmt6w8omrq7cc/AACEW8RCAVItBq429V_cq6Y0a
Sorry...dropbox is blocked at work, so I'll have to check the pictures out when I get home.
Just be sure you're getting the full value of your claim. Here's what I mean... If I'm reading the thread right, an adjuster has already inspected your car. They didn't total it and wrote an estimate. They likely have sent you a check for that estimate amount. For sake of argument, since I don't know the actual numbers, let's say they wrote a $2500 estimate and that's the check you have. Let's also say your car is worth $5000. Shops have looked at it and said "The $2500 estimate isn't the full extent of damage, it's probably a lot higher". Again, for argument sake, let's say it's $5000. The car is a total loss. You've only got a check for $2500 in your hands. Your damages are $5000.
Unfortunately, it can leave you in a tough spot, because in order to get your full value you'll need to have a shop write a supplement on the car and call the insurance company. The insurance company will then total your car and either take it or you'll have to jump through hoops required by your local DMV to be able to retain salvage. OTOH, if you do nothing, you're driving around with only $2500 for your $5000 claim.
Before all the conspiracy theorists and fear mongerers jump in and say "See...the insurance company is trying to screw you", let me clarify. As an appraiser, you are bound by an appraisers act to only write visible damage at the time of appraisal. It's up to the vehicle owner to have the vehicle repaired. If they chose to just walk away with the money and never have the repairs done, the insurance company can't be held responsible for a supplement which may or may not have existed.
Without seeing the pictures, I'm guessing your car is totaled. So just be sure you get your full value.
In reply to Klayfish: Hmmmm... thats interesting. I didnt know that. How do I find out what the value of my car is? I was told by the adjuster that they use NADA and "other factors". What does that mean to me?? Am I "owed" the total damage amount or the total value of the car? And how do I calc the est total value of my car? How do I know what my full value is??
The car is a 2001 Honda Accord LX w/ approx 235k miles on it.
Each state has different guidelines as to how insurance companies are allowed to calculate a cars' value but they're mostly similar. They usually allow a combination of books (NADA, KBB, etc...) and/or a valuation service. A lot of insurance companies use the valuation services. These are companies that do nothing but study local market value of cars and provide a detailed report, including local comparables.
You are owed the total damage on your car, or the value of your car, whichever is less. The hard part in your situation, is showing the extent of damage. You can't just go back to the insurance company and say "This estimate isn't enough, I need more". The answer will then be, "OK, bring it to the shop for them to start repair and they can call in a supplement". Well...sounds like you're not planning to get it fixed. But you'd still need a shop to do a thorough visual inspection of the car and call the insurance company to say "Hey, there's hidden damage the appraiser didn't see". At that point, the insurance company will come back out and write a supplement which will likely total the car (at least based on you description). Then you're in the spot of either surrendering the car, or converting it to a salvage title.
Unfortunately, there's no easy answer here. I've been in this spot many, many times when I was an appraiser. I have a customer who really doesn't want their car totaled. If it's an obvious total loss, I don't have much choice, I have to total it. But if it's boderline, which it sounds like yours may be, I try to be sensitive to the needs/wants of the owner. I'd try to write an estimate that will save the car from being totaled. Sounds to me like your adjuster was doing the same thing. Your car may be a total loss (I'll look at the pictures tonight), and you're going to have to give it up or go through salvage process to get that full value.
Klayfish wrote:ddavidv wrote:Yep. Shops have all the products and tools needed to weld and seam seal every bit as good as the factory...and trust me they ask insurance companies to pay for a lot of seam sealer, weld through primers, etc...dculberson wrote: I have owned a car with a replaced trunk floor pan and the seams all rusted out later. Those were Toyota original parts on a Lexus but the body shops can't weld or seal the seams as well as the factory can. Nothing on the car had rust except the repaired parts. It did hold up for over 10 years so on a 2001 Accord with 230k miles longevity may not be a concern.Your car wasn't repaired properly. With all the weld through primers, seam sealers and rust prevention products available today there's not excuse for that.
Just curious, how many cars repaired like this have either of you seen after 10+ years? I've only got an exposure base of two but both of them rusted extensively in the repaired areas while having absolutely no rust elsewhere. Based on personal experience I would expect a drastically shortened life on a car with repaired seams. They might have fancy primers and seam sealers but it doesn't compare to the equipment a manufacturer has, so even done right it might not last as long.
I'm willing to believe it's possible, but have seen no proof of even "properly" repaired cars holding up long term.
My wife just asked me two good questions:
1) If we get the car totaled by the ins company, and we decide to keep the car and receive the "salvage" title will we have issues w/ our current company w/ insuring the car?
2) If we decide not to get the car fixed, should/could there be an issue w/ safety inspections we have in NC?
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