Range Rover versus Disco in the sub $2500 range?

A few years ago I picked up a late model Chevy Tracker (conv, 1.6/5sp, 4x4) to use as an around town car, an airport car, and to take the dogs and kayaks out to play. And to pull behind my old motorhome.

It does all of these things fairly well... but I really don't like it. It's especially poor on the interstate which even the airport run has an hours worth of...

So I've been finding myself looking at those rare 5 speed 4L Discos... even found one locally with the dual moonroofs in the base SDi trim. Several around within a 200 mile drive, all with mileage in the 150-200k range and prices below $2500.

But then I've noticed an even greater selection of Range Rovers from the same era... mostly 3.9L and all automatics (to my knowledge they never sold the RR here with a manual). However, it appears that the slushbox can be flat towed, so it would meet all of my requirements. Plus be able to tow more than 1000lbs which is what I'm limited to with the Tracker.

So while the Holy Grail would be an early 70's 2 door RR with a 3.5 carb and 5sp, those are rare and expensive (especially on this side of the pond), so I'm looking for a real life comparison of the RR auto with the Disco 5sp... assume same condition, mileage, and price...

I would plan to do all the work myself, so servicability is key. Mileage is not really important as little as it will be used.

I've read some RR forums and the opinions there seem steeped heavily in personal perference over actual facts/experience.

I'm a former Series owner, (and current basketcase Austin Gipsy owner) so those need not apply (unless they have a V8 in them in which case they are out of the $2500 price range)

Also, if anyone knows of a great deal (prefer in MD, DC, VA, WV, PA, NJ region) even slightly above my stated price range, any leads gladly accepted.

Thanks! Bill

Nothing to add to this other than that on a whim I just searched for the manual Landrover that wasn't a Defender about two days ago. Probably not gonna help you much--One is 2X your price, the other doesn't have a price, but this is what I found:

http://www.autotrader.com/fyc/vdp.jsp?ct=p&car_id=264030215&dealer_id=64278761&car_year=1997&rdm=1266184108936&lastStartYear=1981&num_records=25&model=&systime=&make2=&highlightFirstMakeModel=&start_year=1981&engine=&keywordsrep=&keywordsfyc=&certified=&fuel=&body_code=0&awsp=false&search_type=both&distance=0&marketZipError=false&search_lang=en&showZipError=y&sownerid=57855551&first_record=26&make=ROV&color=&keywords_display=&page_location=findacar::ispsearchform&min_price=&drive=&default_sort=priceDESC&seller_type=b&max_mileage=&style_flag=1&sort_type=priceDESC&address=61761&advanced=y&end_year=2011&pager.offset=25&transmission=Manual&doors=&max_price=&cardist=119&standard=false&rdpage=thumb

http://www.autotrader.com/fyc/vdp.jsp?ct=u&car_id=272232523&dealer_id=100025838&car_year=1996&rdm=1266184108936&lastStartYear=1981&num_records=25&model=&systime=&make2=&highlightFirstMakeModel=&start_year=1981&engine=&keywordsrep=&keywordsfyc=&certified=&fuel=&body_code=0&awsp=false&search_type=both&distance=0&marketZipError=false&search_lang=en&showZipError=y&sownerid=57855551&first_record=26&make=ROV&color=&keywords_display=&page_location=findacar::ispsearchform&min_price=&drive=&default_sort=priceDESC&seller_type=b&max_mileage=&style_flag=1&sort_type=priceDESC&address=61761&advanced=y&end_year=2011&pager.offset=25&transmission=Manual&doors=&max_price=&cardist=499&standard=false&rdpage=thumb

I once found a 5-speed Disco locally that was mint other than a dropped cylinder liner or something. I know one might say "yeah, that's worthless", but it was otherwise mint. And it was $300.

Someday...

I have talked to a few RR guys. They say to stay away from the Disco's. Money traps much like a cheap 911. Why not get a Cherokee or Wrangler. Yeah, they don't have the Euro cache that the RR's have but they are cheap, run for a long, long time and meet your other criteria.

I used to be into rovers. If you can get a 3.9 l early disco, go ahead. The 4.0l version were prone to carbon build up on the valves, causing the engine to stutter at mid rpms. It was fairly common, and if it was fixed, shouldn't be an issue again. You won't see a range rover with a manual transmission. Other than that, they are close to identical underneath. I owned a range rover, and would suggest a disco. Reason being is you'll find many of the range rovers have the borg-warner transfer case, which can problematic. The disco has the lt230 transfer case, and it's a popular transplant into range rovers. Rovers are easy to work on, but a manual is a good thing to have on hand. They are no more a money trap than any other vehicle in the $2500 range. If you can do your own work, parts prices aren't rediculous, and there are plenty of used parts out there. My first concern looking at either, would be rust on the rear part of the frame and crossmembers.

RR and a Disco in the same year are very mechanically similar. The RR will have more expensive inside equipment that can cost more money to keep in top shape. In either case, don't be surprised if you have non working electrical items, strange warning lights, etc, in that price range.

I haven't heard many real problems with the transmissions (no worse then Chevy 700R4/Dodge727 from the same era).

I had a long, well thought out post all ready to go last night. But then the forum went down and it disapeared The short version is I'm an 11 year Land Rover tech and I'm telling you that if you can't afford to spend $15k right off the bat then you can't afford one for $5k. Since it will likely need that much work to set right. Much like a Porsche the most expensive Land Rovers are the "cheap" ones.

Junkyard_Dog wrote: I had a long, well thought out post all ready to go last night. But then the forum went down and it disapeared The short version is I'm an 11 year Land Rover tech and I'm telling you that if you can't afford to spend $15k right off the bat then you can't afford one for $5k. Since it will likely need that much work to set right. Much like a Porsche the most expensive Land Rovers are the "cheap" ones.

Wow.

The reason Land Rovers/Range Rovers cost that much to repair is if you take them to Land Rover techs at the dealer to get hosed. Sorry, but that's the truth.

My $800 '88 Range rover cost me about $100 in a year to drive. My $4500 '95 RR County LWB cost me $200 in the two years I had it, and my '01 Range Rover has cost me $150 in over a year. ($100 to replace the original battery at 70k miles, and $50 to replace the spark plug wires at 65k miles).

If you want to take an old Range Rover and make it a brand new Range Rover and have to have the dealer do it, then yeah, it'll cost a mint to "set right." But if you want one that will run for a long time, get you through anything, don't care that it is, in fact, a USED vehicle, and can work on it yourself (and any of the older ones are easy to work on), then it'll be as cheap to own as anything you want to name.

My only suggestion is to stay away from a 3.5 or 3.9 liter variety if you really want to tow anything at anything approaching the speed limit, as they are way down on power for such a heavy rig.

I'll post these again, so that you can get an idea of where I'm coming from:

I guess this is all predicated on the Range rover being a range rover classic, rather than a p38 range rover. The classic is the one in the picture above. The p38 started in 95, and even being a rover nut, I wouldn't own one.

In reply to sachilles:

The P38 is the black on in the picture above, and now that winter is here, it's my daily driver. It's the one that has cost me $150 in over a year of driving all over the east coast (bought it in October of '08). So far it's the best of the Rovers I've had...

Chris, I think you are exceptionally fortunate. I've not been so lucky. I will gladly take a rrc over a p38 for similar price and condition, just based on my luck with the breed. I shed a tear as did my wife when my rrc left with it's new owner. My wife and I went for celebratory dinner when we sold the p38. I've driven an 08 and liked it, but feels very un-rovery to me, not that I could afford to own one anyway.

Get a real late model Tracker, they're much nicer.

If I spent 15k on rebuilding my 99 DiscoII it better end up with limited slips front and rear and a 500hp big cube LSx motor with a 6L90 behind it. Heck for 15k I would expect an entire new suspension under it as well.

sachilles wrote: Chris, I think you are exceptionally fortunate. I've not been so lucky. I will gladly take a rrc over a p38 for similar price and condition, just based on my luck with the breed. I shed a tear as did my wife when my rrc left with it's new owner. My wife and I went for celebratory dinner when we sold the p38.

If I was that fortunate, then I should have won the lottery by now. But NONE of the vehicles that the average person considers troublesome has ever been so for me. MGs, Fiats, BMWs, Range Rovers, etc.

No, I can't be that lucky. I just understand the vehicles and have a bit of mechanical sympathy while operating them.

Simply put, I buy relatively randomly, never go over the cars with a fine tooth comb before hand, and never ever expect a used car to be a new one.

Chris_V wrote: Wow. The reason Land Rovers/Range Rovers cost that much to repair is if you take them to Land Rover techs at the dealer to get hosed. Sorry, but that's the truth.

I'm sorry, but you're wrong. Seeing as I've been working on them for 11 years and owned 5 of them, I think I'm in a position to know. There are some things you just can't do without a dealer or VERY good independent shop getting involved. Parts prices are high for a lot of items even through the aftermarket. Many control units are VIN/mileage coded and can't be bought used. I never mentioned labor costs on the assumption the buyer would try to do things himself.

Chris_V wrote: My $800 '88 Range rover cost me about $100 in a year to drive. My $4500 '95 RR County LWB cost me $200 in the two years I had it, and my '01 Range Rover has cost me $150 in over a year. ($100 to replace the original battery at 70k miles, and $50 to replace the spark plug wires at 65k miles).

You've been extremely lucky. I'd wager there are quite a few issues you've been putting off or are blissfully unaware of however. It also seems like you only own them a short time. Thats a good idea. Sell them off before they break you. I sold all mine in perfect shape, but I knew it was just a matter of time until the next problem arose.

Chris_V wrote: If you want to take an old Range Rover and make it a brand new Range Rover and have to have the dealer do it, then yeah, it'll cost a mint to "set right." But if you want one that will run for a long time, get you through anything, don't care that it is, in fact, a USED vehicle, and can work on it yourself (and any of the older ones are easy to work on), then it'll be as cheap to own as anything you want to name.

I'm curious to see whats broken on your cars and what you'll put up with in a DD. On all of my Rovers everything worked. Every option, switch, button, light, etc. All the trim was as it should be. If you don't mind beaters then by all means buy one and put up with falling headliners, switches that don't light or work, warped dashes, etc. I for one wouldn't put up with that on my $500 Volvo, nevermind something costing ten times that.

Chris_V wrote: My only suggestion is to stay away from a 3.5 or 3.9 liter variety if you really want to tow anything at anything approaching the speed limit, as they are way down on power for such a heavy rig.

I'd go one better and say anything less than a 4.2 is inadequate. That puts you in a P38 or 03-04 Disco II, both of which have their own issues. You can tow with a series one Disco or RRC but the short wheelbase makes it a bit more challenging. Plus their rear coil springs can sag under not much weight(BTDT). That leaves the RRC LWB which has air suspension, which while pricey to keep going (springs go about every 5 years or so and its best to do them all at once) they make towing a snap. If you must go that route I'd recomend a 95 as the early interiors are horrible.

Paul_VR6 wrote: RR and a Disco in the same year are very mechanically similar. The RR will have more expensive inside equipment that can cost more money to keep in top shape. In either case, don't be surprised if you have non working electrical items, strange warning lights, etc, in that price range.

True about the issues a cheap one will have. The RR and Disco only shared platforms to 1995. The P38 was vastly different inside and out. While much nicer to drive they have many more expensive problems. Out of all mine the 96 RR 4.0 was my favorite, but it also required the most upkeep.

Junkyard dog said

"Many control units are VIN/mileage coded and can't be bought used"

Which ones? Cant be installed used without a reprogram or just can't be installed period? I am really curious.

Ooh RR Classic tow rig

MrJoshua wrote: Junkyard dog said "Many control units are VIN/mileage coded and can't be bought used" Which ones? Cant be installed used without a reprogram or just can't be installed period? I am really curious.

The P38 BeCM can't even be recoded by a dealership. Theres a place in TX that can clear them but unless you got the part for free you're better off with a new one. For $1300. On series II Discos swapping in a cluster or BCM will automatically update the mileage in both to the highest number. Swapping in even a new engine ECU or security ECU will cause a no start until they are programmed to each other be a dealer back to 1995. The newer the car the worse it is. On the new ones EVERY electronic module down to the headlight module will learn the VIN and set a mismatch fault if swapped. Its insane but understandable with the price of control units and the ease of removal. Add to that the fact that Rovers like to let water in and you can easily see why expensive repairs are common. Disco Is have a habit of soaking splice connectors behind the glovebox and taking down half the electrics in the car. Those splices are NLA and there are 9 of them on that side alone with about 20 pins each. You do the math.

Not to say they're terrible. If you off road a lot they can't be beat. But if you don't there are much better alternatives. The small production numbers ensures scarcity of used parts. Land Rovers are on par with a similar vintage BMW, but imagine that BMW was put together by retarded glue sniffers on acid.

In reply to Junkyard_Dog:

P38 BeCMs aren't that hard to diagnose and deal with, actually.

http://www.rangerovers.net/repairdetails/becm/index.html

"Most BECM problems are not especially fatal except those relating to alarm functions, which can lock you out and/or disable the ECM and prevent the engine from starting." So enter the generic code of 1515 in the US and be on your way.

Unlock once lock 5 times, unlock once, and then lock 5 times.

;)

Get an FSJ.

belteshazzar wrote: Get an FSJ.

All have returned to the earth from wence they came....

Seriously awesome vehicles, but finding a good one anymore is tough. Even the ones I saw down south were all starting to rust away. Truly sad.

mmmmmmmmMMMMMMMmmmmmmmmmm

ignorant wrote:

belteshazzar wrote: Get an FSJ.

All have returned to the earth from wence they came.... Seriously awesome vehicles, but finding a good one anymore is tough. Even the ones I saw down south were all starting to rust away. Truly sad.

www.ifsja.org can help with that.

I paid $400 for my 1979 example (recently sold for $1000) they're out there.

belteshazzar wrote: mmmmmmmmMMMMMMMmmmmmmmmmm

a modern powertrain and modern electrics would really make these awesome...

Late model chevy engine, trans and xfer would be sweet. Dump the quardatrac... ugh!

belteshazzar wrote:

ignorant wrote:

belteshazzar wrote: Get an FSJ.

All have returned to the earth from wence they came.... Seriously awesome vehicles, but finding a good one anymore is tough. Even the ones I saw down south were all starting to rust away. Truly sad.

www.ifsja.org can help with that. I paid $400 for my 1979 example (recently sold for $1000) they're out there.

I was into jeeps a bit ago. I want a J20 bad, but not gonna happen now.