Rotella T6

In reply to Duke:

The levels of zinc now vs 3-5 years ago almost makes it a non issue. Rotella t now has zinc levels comparable to normal oils 5-10 years ago so it's not enough to matter I don't feel. Then again I haven't run a cat in years so don't get mad at me if you burn out your cat. But I've got many friends running newer vehicles with rotella and so far no cat or o2 failures. Also for what it's worth I've used the same wideband in various cars for 4 years all with rotella and it's still fine.

I love rotella but I am not an advocate for "rotella all the things" I found in my Miata it was simply too thick and was actually raising the oil temp. I wouldn't run it in a newer "eco" style engine simply cause most those are spec'ed for 0w-20 but it's wonderful in my old clacky turbo volvos

pointofdeparture wrote: In reply to Duke: I'm willing to bet the "Rotella kills cats" claims are all hypothetical and sourced from a bunch of armchair chemistry experts, as opposed to any actual known failures.

One of the driving forces behind new oil formulations is catalyst efficiency. So it isn't armchair chemists, it's the engineers who ask pretty-please for oils with lower amounts of cat-poisoning compounds so they can use smaller/more free-flowing cats, which will light off faster and/or make more power at the expense of having less fault tolerance.

In reply to Knurled:

That's all well and good, but my point is that even if there's a car out there that actually has experienced a straight-up cat failure due to using Shell Rotella oils, it sure isn't very easy to find it documented, so it can't be THAT much of a problem.

pointofdeparture wrote:

wbjones wrote: my Mom's '12 Fit (only 7700 mi) is due for it's second oil change (oil life meter at 45%) … still undecided on what to us .. Rotella has always been on the horizon) if I were to go to it for Mom, what grade ? one more yr of warranty on the car

The general consensus on the newer Fits is that anything over 20W on the hot side is way too thick for the L15 engine (Rotella T6 is only made in 5W-40). Stick with the stock-spec 0W-20.

ok … thanks

I use T6 in the WRX and have for over 100,000 miles with no issues. Actually it's one of the top suggestions on the Bob Is The Oil Guy forums for turbo cars, especially Subarus.

I use the Rotella synthetic blend (T5) in the Sequoia and the e30 rallycross car as well (10w-30). I have nothing bad to say about it, and it's a lot cheaper and can be bought on sale at Wally World at least once a month.

Ran T6 in the Miata for the last year and a half that I owned it, liked it a lot.
Quieted down the miata tick and handled that car not ever being driven nicely, across four seasons.

In reply to pointofdeparture:

It's one of those things, in the aftermarket, that is hard to determine.

Certainly if you use the wrong oil, you can have a warranty voided. Did you know that they sell "SB" rated oil at Big Lots? Two bucks a quart. And get a cat fail under warranty, and if they find bottles of that in your trunk... warranty voided.

In reply to Knurled:

Right, but if you read my first post, you'd see that I recommended OE-spec oils for anything made in the past few years/still under warranty anyway. I run the recommended 0W-20 in my 2013 Fit because it is the smart thing to do and oil analysis says there is no reason to mess with it. AFAIK, this is a thread asking if Rotella actually kills cats and O2 sensors as the internet rumors seem to suggest, not a thread asking about the finer points of warranty coverage or if $2 a quart Big Lots oil is worth running.

In reply to pointofdeparture:

Given and granted. The answer is "If your car is not burning oil, you probably won't notice a real difference, but if your car is burning oil, you might." Given that oil consumption seems to increase the longer it's been since an oil change, I'd think that long OCIs would exacerbate any issues... and the OEMs have also been going to long OCIs to make cost of use seem cheap to people who are leasing them for three or four years.

Also, I can't send PMs. Who the heck was the original for your avatar. It has been bothering me greatly. It looks like three or four different characters I can think of but not really.

It's a good oil, diesel rated means tough as nails and long drain interval (6000+ miles in a gasoline street car, more with oil analysis).

Regarding zinc, it should be noted that in the 1960s when zddp levels were raised to protect camshafts in high performance V8s of the period, it was found that 800ppm was sufficient, and that was how much oils of the time contained. More is overkill in most, if not all, cases. It was raised further in the 70s because it made a good cheap antioxidant, not for antiwear reasons. T6 is still 1000+ last I checked, as are many flavors of M1.

Knurled wrote: In reply to pointofdeparture: Also, I can't send PMs.

are you using Yahoo for your listed e-mail on your profile ? if so that's probably the reason … GRM and Yahoo don't play nice together

Kenny_McCormic wrote: It's a good oil, diesel rated means tough as nails and long drain interval (6000+ miles in a gasoline street car, more with oil analysis). Regarding zinc, it should be noted that in the 1960s when zddp levels were raised to protect camshafts in high performance V8s of the period, it was found that 800ppm was sufficient, and that was how much oils of the time contained. More is overkill in most, if not all, cases.

The interesting thing is that, apparently, putting EOS Addtive (high phosphate content) type things in modern oils to add ZDDP and "make it better" actually hurt the ability to deal with high point-contact sliding friction. In other words, just buy an oil made for flat tappet cams and don't play armchair tribologist. We use Brad Penn in all flat tappet engines with no problems.

Actually, we try to convert everything to roller I think I have done two engines in the last ten years with a flat tappet, EVERYTHING else has been roller. 100% of the Buicks we do are roller conversions. Not only are flat tappet cams a long-term liability, it absolutely sucks if you have one go flat during breakin, because you MUST remove the engine and completely disassemble/clean at best, and rehone/replace pistons and bearings at worst. Roller cams and lifters look expensive until the first time you have a cam go flat, then they are cheap insurance.

If you don't have an OHV flat tappet cam, worrying about "zinc" (phosphate/ZDDP) content is like worrying about chemtrails.

Full disclosure: I use Rotella in my 13B, because it is usually $15-20 per gallon and I need to change the oil every thousand miles or so due to fuel dilution. My Volvo, which does not have that sort of problem, lives quite happily on Mobil 1 0W40 changed every 2-3k.

In reply to Knurled:

You only run M1 0w40 for 2-3k? I hate to play armchair tribologist, but unless this is a race car you should be able to double that no problem. It run it pretty hard for 7-8k with good UOAs.

Knurled wrote: Also, I can't send PMs. Who the heck was the original for your avatar. It has been bothering me greatly. It looks like three or four different characters I can think of but not really.

It's Maki Nishikino from Love Live! (obviously with some Doritos love for added effect)

I will stand by the fact that my Alfa Spider's valvetrain got waaaay quieter with a switch to Rotella T, and my 740 turbo smoked and consumed oil a lot less after going to T6, but I'm perfectly happy running any good synthetic the book says for newer stuff and changing it out every 6-8k. The Fit seems to like the Mobil1 AFE 0W-20 I have in it now; it told me there was 40% oil life remaining 8k after the PO's last change, so I'm thinking that's not a bad fluid or OCI at this point.

Kenny_McCormic wrote: In reply to Knurled: You only run M1 0w40 for 2-3k? I hate to play armchair tribologist, but unless this is a race car you should be able to double that no problem. It run it pretty hard for 7-8k with good UOAs.

I have a problem car. The previous dumbass did oil changes every now and then, using generic oil instead of a high quality synthetic like you'd expect should be used in a small turbocharged engine powering a fairly large car, so the cam phaser is all gunked up. The current dumbass, namely me, cleaned everything out as best as possible with various cleaning agents, the best of which was just running the engine with pure ATF in the sump and changing the oil filter every few hundred miles.

Current OCI is high quality synthetic, changed when the dreaded P0015 starts coming back on a regular basis, which is about every 2k.

pointofdeparture wrote: It's Maki Nishikino from Love Live! (obviously with some Doritos love for added effect)

Ah! Okay. I was way off track then. Now I can sleep at night

The Fit seems to like the Mobil1 AFE 0W-20 I have in it now; it told me there was 40% oil life remaining 8k after the PO's last change, so I'm thinking that's not a bad fluid or OCI at this point.

Oil life computation is a strict mileage interval at its simplest, and a complex algorithm based on calculated oil temperatures and engine loads at best. (Usually, any overheat event will result in immediate drop to 0% oil life) The calculated oil life percentage isn't based on any kind of actual measurement of oil quality. If you do a lot of highway driving or otherwise optimal conditions (warm but not too hot, basically) then that will be extending the calculated oil life. Really, as it should be.

Da Boss goes by the calculated percentage in his private fleet but he changes at 35% or so. He also stopped putting synthetic in his cars because he noted oil consumption in his 6.2l 'Burban, which did go away once going from synthetic back to regular ol' Agip non-synthetic. He's also using non-synthetic in his 3.6 CTS, and I have a whole page full of I-told-you-sos ready to deploy in the event of cam chain failure. However, it's been 30k or thereabouts since he stopped using synthetic in it, and it's still soldiering on without setting cam timing codes.

Huh, imagine that, change the oil more frequently than the OEM claims you need to do, and the engine stays happy.

Knurled wrote: Current OCI is high quality synthetic, changed when the dreaded P0015 starts coming back on a regular basis, which is about every 2k.

Yuck, in that case I'd think 5w40 diesel oil might work better, should absorb more gunk.

I started running T6 when I got my first Saab. Great stuff. I still run it in that car, but also the miatas and all of my small engines.

I've thought about T5 for the Lexus.

so from the stuff here, T6 is motorcycle safe too?

In reply to CarKid1989:

Yeah, it has the "JASO-MA" rating for motorcycle use.

In reply to CarKid1989:

It is, as already noted, although I wasn't personally happy with it in my VFR as it changed the feel of the shifter. Felt very notchy or sticky, if that makes sense. Adding in a quart of Kawasaki branded 20w50 conventional fixed that up. That oil is also a Shell product. Other VFR owners have not noted this behavior. Straight Honda GN4 also left the shift feeling pretty notchy as well.