Say!!! where did everybody go???

In reply to eastsideTim :

Predicable sales cycles are nothing new to retail or automotive.  Every holiday there is a 'major sale' in both industries, and I'm sure you've heard of these little things called Black Friday and Cyber Monday that tend to make rational buyers irrational. In fact, there's nothing you note that the retail industry hasn't already dealt with and solved, or couldn't be modified and scaled to apply to cars as well. They're already half way there, and basically just need to eliminate the worst possible quality of sales model.  The dealerships would still need to exist as stores, and they would still need most of the people that work there, they would just operate under a different method of selling to the consumer. 

In reply to MazdaFace :

Just because GM screwed the pooch with Satrun, doesn't mean that consumers can't be reconditioned to a retail based pricing model...Especially since 'fixed price' doesn't have to mean 'set in stone'. 

Tesla doesn't seem to be having any problems with a non-negotiable pricing model.  Note again that non-negotiable doesn't mean that everybody always pays the exact same price for the exact same item, even on Tesla's either.

In reply to MazdaFace :

I think there's blame all over the place.

My first new car was a 2001 Saturn SL2, not because it was my favorite of the cars I test drove (that would have been the Nissan Sentra SE or the Protege ES), becasue back then, pretty much every other dealer was playing games.  I managed to copy the Mazda dealer's four square numbers, and check them out - they were trying to get me to pay full price on the Protege, and steal my trade in.  The Nissan dealer wasn't much better.  The Honda dealer was somehat better, and while I wasn't impressed by the Civic, that played a factor in me going there for a car purchase years later.

Since then, I've been more aggressive, and it seems like it cuts down the BS.  I've also usually tried to hit them when they have low demand cars - I bought a Miata during the post collapse carpocalypse in the wintertime.  That worked out well.  The warranty issue after, not as much.

Most recently, my wife bought a GTI, after doing quite a bit of research.  I'm sure we left some money on the table, and she did end up with the extended warranty(she has a high mileage commute), but they weren't terribly pushy at the dealership, so it wasn't worth fighting for every last penny.  If I didn't have concerns over VW reliabilty, I'd have no problem going back to that dealer.

In reply to eastsideTim :

For sure. And like in any industry, there are snakes and there are good people. At the end of the day, I go home knowing that I do right by my customers, and I don't lie to people about stuff. So far my bills get paid, so I'll keep doing things that way. Trades are a different issue entirely... a lot of people expect great condition retail kbb for a vehicle with dents/dings/scratches/stains when in reality they should be getting fair trade value, if that. If we can both sell the car for 15k, obviously I can't give you 15k for it, etc...

eastsideTim said:

Of course, manufacturers could go to the idea of having a few demonstrators on the lot, and have almost everything be custom ordered.  Too many other things would have to change for that to be a viable system, at least in the US.  At the very least, it'd require getting rid of the current dealer system, and could severely mess up just-in-time manufacturing.

Oh no! You mean we'd have to move to unbucketed manufacturing? The horror of efficiency is upon us! It's almost like routes and modular BOMs were developed to accomplish this.

Sarcasm not a personal attack. I'm feeling kinda bitter after dealing with various manufacturers today who have trouble grasping the concept of overlaps and synchronous manufacturing.

The0retical said:

...dealing with various manufacturers today who have trouble grasping the concept of overlaps and synchronous manufacturing.

I feel your pain...Pretty much every day.

dannyzabolotny said:

I feel like the only decent car sales jobs are in CarMax, because they're a bit different from the usual dealerships. Too bad CarMax only sells used cars, they'd make a killing if they sold new cars without any of the BS.

I thought CarMax had a limited number of new car dealerships?  White Marsh MD seems to be one location that has new & used models from past car searches...

The Tinley Park, IL Car Max location sells new cars pulled from a Kenosha, WI dealership.   

Datsun310Guy said:

In reply to MazdaFace :

Get into industrial sales.  Near any large refinery or chemical plants?   If so, there are a few companies selling to them.  

Better hours, better commissions, better customers.   Contact me if interested.  

You got that right! Monday to Friday, 8 to 5ish, every single holiday on the calender off with pay. And the work atmosphere is usually a bunch of people that like to actually do fun things like race cars, hunt, fish, race cars, fly airplanes, build cars, race cars, and lots of generally very cool hobbies. At least in my neck of the industrial sales woods.

In reply to MazdaFace :

I hope you're still around in 6-9 months.  I'll be looking for a 2015 SS Sedan with Manual trans.  Not a Texas Flood car, although I do love me some SRV.  

Can't honestly say i've read the whole thread but the idea of salespeople being pushy or deceptive based on their own pay probably has something to do with living hand to mouth. I just went in to talk to someone about a spurious $50 charge and asked how long it had been going on because i couldn't easily find a way to view statements on my phone. They asked me 'wouldn't you notice if it had been charging you this $50 every month'? Well, not necessarily. If you know that you live in such a way that you never actually run out of money, then it's possible you wouldn't notice an anomaly right away because you don't sweat over your balances on a weekly, maybe daily basis. If you live hand to mouth that's going to make you more likely to do all sorts of things that would make a person less likely to want to deal with you as a salesperson. 

Hell, i bought my 911 off a young car salesperson (it was his personal car) for almost exactly his payoff amount because he 'couldn't afford it' anymore. In my mind that means he probably couldn't afford to lose the difference between his original loan amount and his payoff that i was paying him (how many thousands of dollars??). But i guess that's just water under the bridge to people whose pattern of decision making leads them to not-infrequent money crunches. Can't get it back, so just do some impulsive and questionable deal to get into the black for the next week or two and then on to the next shortsighted mistake. 

In reply to AngryCorvair :

I definitely plan on being here, so let me know when & I'll start looking 

I must confess that I've not really experienced this situation to the magnitude described. My only new car purchase was my '91 Silverado, went armed with only my credit union trump card. This truck wasn't even on the lot(5.7l w/5spd), so the dealer found one 100 miles away and by the end of the week voila, keys in hand and a big smile.  Since that time my last few 'purchases' have been over the interwebb sans drama.