I understand the lemming thing. Building one of these cars is a commitment of a load of time and money. Going with a "sure thing" makes sense. It would suck to sink all that time and cash into a car that just can't be competitive. And, uh, I may be able to tell you the story personally here before long...
Ian and fast-eddie "get it".
Eric, bumping a dominant car from one class to another ONLY makes sense if there is an alternate class that shares the rule set AND still provides an opportunity to remain competitive. There is nothing stopping competitors from running different cars in "spec" classes except their grey matter and their greenbacks.
Sometimes we get competitors like the Schweikle's who run just for the fun of it; kudos to them. They drive the same car they've had for decades because they love it and they love the people they race with. Again, kudos to them as they are great examples of what makes the sport fun.
My E Stock MR2 is my daily driver. I won E Stock at the Colorado ProSolo! I had a fool proof strategy- no one faster than me signed up! My PAX was kinda pathetic, but I got the cool T Shirt (and some tires!) all the same!
It's a great strategy and will work every time. But it's hard to pull off since you have absolutely nothing to do with it. It sure was cool to pretend to be a big time autocrosser for one weekend though. And running in the challenge was a blast!
So what does everyone think of Braun changing tires after every run? Given the course layout, I think he probably would have won SS without doing that, and I can't imagine what could be worse for the sport than his idea catching on.
In reply to oldsaw:
Geting it is relative. There still is CAR in the name SCCA, so I suspect that being a car person is important.
based on previous looking at PAX, and the Miata, it can be bumped from CSP to BSP quite easily. That will never happen, though, since Miata people are looking to bump their cars down to easier classes, since they don't think they dominate, enough.
BTW, this whole adventure is for the fun of it. Why else would you spend $20,000 on modifications just to win a jacket?
I just think it's sad that the classes are so very, very one dimensional. If that means I don't "get it"- that very much enances my reasons not to be a part of that. Not that I needed any more. But I won't stay up at nights planning on putting a '91 Spider motor into a '71 GTV with the right mods, since there's no chance in he!! that I'll be competetive. And it's clear that there's very little point in nationals if you are not.
BTW, I find the whole lemming idea pretty offending. All you are saying is that people who autocross are not creative at all- they are lazy in thought, and will just copy the guy in front of them. So if many of the classes are filled with these no thinking lemmings, I don't see any entertianment hanging around them. Do you really think people are that lazy/dumb? really?
Anyway, I see that I'm apparently barking up the wrong tree.
Congrats to Dave, and other GRM'ers, and good luck to Per. I promise not to read this lemming thread anymore.
BTW- will- Matt chaning tires- since he has no money in Don Leckey's car, he can afford to blow that money, even if he doesn't need it. I know Matt, he has come to our events, and is a great driver. But win at all costs.. eh. No wonder I have little enthusiasm to getting back into autocross after taking 2 years off. My '74 GTV will be seen as an antique, and that I'm cheating when I beat other drivers....
So, I finished 17th in SSM . . .
Fastest rookie in that class. Second fastest Miata on day 2 (lost to my co-driver/owner). Not bad for 160 horsepower 
alfadriver wrote: Although, it does bring up a question- how many classes is it ok for one car to basically dominate like that? CSP is all Miatas; ST-F is all, but one; Civic, ST is all, but 3, civics. seems a shame that you have to be part of a flock to be competetive.
Nah, you don't have to be part of the flock. But it sure is easier, because you know at least ONE of those guys has shared their setup online, and it's easier to duplicate instead of trying something new and doing all the testing yourself.
Now, i may be talking out of my ass, since my car still hasn't seen competition yet, but i do not believe that "Civic" is the only answer for SMF in particular.
Hell, i can think of a few cars that would have been better than my choice that WEREN'T Civics, but i didn't choose to try any of them, because i already had a car.
Also a counterpoint, not many people thought that a 1st gen Protege would do well in FSP last year. It did, and i'm hoping to see that happen again today.
If you don't like seeing "lemming classes," then do something about it. 
STR is intense today. Lots of good entries, lots of good times. So far our guys John "Woody" Rogers and Chris Harvey are solidly in the trophies, but I know they're looking to move up a position or two still.
Will wrote: So what does everyone think of Braun changing tires after every run? Given the course layout, I think he probably would have won SS without doing that, and I can't imagine what could be worse for the sport than his idea catching on.
Did that seriously happen? As if I need any more ammo for my anti r-compounds rant in the Stock classes...
Yup changed to brandy new hoosiers every run. The borowski's ran a new set for their last run. $3000 in tires FTW
Javelin wrote:Will wrote: So what does everyone think of Braun changing tires after every run? Given the course layout, I think he probably would have won SS without doing that, and I can't imagine what could be worse for the sport than his idea catching on.Did that seriously happen? As if I need *any* more ammo for my anti r-compounds rant in the Stock classes...
As if non-R's would have changed the results. It's a national championship so some people will pull out all the stops to win. What makes you think such a competitor would change strategies if the tires were further restricted? Winners win, haters hate.
Whatcha gonna do?
For what purpose, to what end, and at what point is "enough" enough?
Tom Heath wrote: STR is intense today. Lots of good entries, lots of good times. So far our guys John "Woody" Rogers and Chris Harvey are solidly in the trophies, but I know they're looking to move up a position or two still.
Sorry I'm back here- but not posting about, well...
a post on the Miata.net board suggests that GRM driver Howard Duncan pulled his trophy pulled his position- know anything about that?
if true, interesting- he finished 11th in the currently posted results.
alfadriver wrote:Tom Heath wrote: STR is intense today. Lots of good entries, lots of good times. So far our guys John "Woody" Rogers and Chris Harvey are solidly in the trophies, but I know they're looking to move up a position or two still.Sorry I'm back here- but not posting about, well... a post on the Miata.net board suggests that GRM driver Howard Duncan pulled his trophy pulled his position- know anything about that? if true, interesting- he finished 11th in the currently posted results.
I don't know anything specific, but SCCA officials sometimes do that to avoid the appearance of impropriety. It happened at RallyCross Nationals a few years back. I'll ask the proper questions to the appropriate people and get back.
Back OT- S2000s are crushing STR today!
It'll be interesting to see if the MX-5's can catch up tomorrow. From what I hear, the course today was the one that the MX-5's were supposed to have an advantage (that is correct, right?).
In reply to Tom Heath:
thanks tom.
Now if BM would just get going!
Waiting for FSP to go! I spy the Purple People Eater!
The Solo announcers have just reported that STUL competitors are changing tires a la that despicable trendsetter, Matt Braun.
The irony in this - STU/STUL don't compete on r-comps.
Wha chu gonna dew?
oldsaw wrote: The Solo announcers have just reported that STUL competitors are changing tires a la that despicable trendsetter, Matt Braun. The irony in this - STU/STUL don't compete on r-comps. Wha chu gonna dew?
Not autocross with the SCCA. That's what I did, and I am a much happier racer because of it.
I suspect that some of the manic tire changing has to do with other people's rubber that is accumulated on the tire.
You only get to compete for national champion once a year. Not making excuses, I don't like it a bit.
On a completely different note - STX is running now and ST Civics are blowing away the STX cars.
bludroptop wrote: I suspect that some of the manic tire changing has to do with other people's rubber that is accumulated on the tire.
No suspicions, that's the fact..............
You only get to compete for national champion once a year. Not making excuses, I don't like it a bit.
If you're seriously shooting for a national championship there are no excuses. The same rationale applies to regional and local competitors. Regardless of how rules are adjusted to "level" competition, there are those who will use/exploit the rules to achieve their goals.
Javelin wrote:oldsaw wrote: The Solo announcers have just reported that STUL competitors are changing tires a la that despicable trendsetter, Matt Braun. The irony in this - STU/STUL don't compete on r-comps. Wha chu gonna dew?Not autocross with the SCCA. That's what I did, and I am a *much* happier racer because of it.
Yeah, your SCCA bashing isn't getting old at all dude....
Tom Heath wrote: Back OT- S2000s are crushing STR today!
as was predicted by most everyone I heard or read back when the class was formed
not a complaint just a reminder of some past forums 
bludroptop wrote: I On a completely different note - STX is running now and ST Civics are blowing away the STX cars.
and that's the reason SCCA has outlawed them starting next yr.... back to ST (C) for the Civic
SpeedTheory wrote:Javelin wrote:Yeah, your SCCA bashing isn't getting old at all dude....oldsaw wrote: The Solo announcers have just reported that STUL competitors are changing tires a la that despicable trendsetter, Matt Braun. The irony in this - STU/STUL don't compete on r-comps. Wha chu gonna dew?Not autocross with the SCCA. That's what I did, and I am a *much* happier racer because of it.
So it's okay to bash GM, NASCAR, Danica Patrick, and Lewis Hamilton but not okay to bash dropping a new set of $1500 tires every 45-second run in a parking lot? Puh-lease.
In reply to Javelin:
It's OK to bash as long as one is willing to get bashed in return.
OK?
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