Scheming Assistance- Longitudinal Transmissions for 2GRFE

I have acquired a very cheap and very knocking 2GRFE to measure for potential rally engine scheming- I like a lot of things about this engine, it fits in a nice sweet spot for displacement, availability, size, power, rules compliance, etc.  But as we all know, this is a fwd engine meant to be mounted transverse- disassembling the extra brackets and stuff, I already see good spots for traditional rwd motor mounts, so a reasonably priced transmission solution seems to be the biggest hurdle.

The MR2 people have figured out that these share at least some of their bolts and dowels with the 3SGE/3SGTE, so in theory a J160 Altezza transmission (normally attached to a BEAMS 3SGE) should work, but that's a $1200 JDM piece and still doesn't have anywhere to put the starter.  There are also 3S adatper bellhousings to the (expensive) W58 Supra transmission, yet again with nowhere to put the starter.

I cannot possibly be the only person to try and figure out how to mount one of these longways, any leads would be much appreciated.

After digging, the 1GR and 2GR do not share the same bellhousing pattern. That was going to be my hope for you.

I think a fabricated steel bellhousing to fit whatever common/strong longitudinal transmission is your best bet. Then you get to make sure it has the features you need, where you wan them. Also able to over build it for factor of safety on one-off parts.

Do starter motors HAVE  to be attached to the flywheel? Or can they be attached to the front of the crank in some wacky way?

In reply to GIRTHQUAKE :

For this use, I'd much rather the starter be nice and safe at the back of the engine.

In reply to ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ :

Good point.

It seems the Aisin AR15 boxes also don't have a starter located on the trans, so those seem to be out.

In reply to GIRTHQUAKE :

I have a BRZ transmission laying around and while the starter is in vaguely the right place, the rest isn't very close.  The RX8 variant of this gearbox looks closer, but obviously would still require an adapter.

I really think for anything to bolt up, we're going to need to find some weird missing link engine I'm not aware of- otherwise the 3SGE stuff is going to be the closest.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯ said:

In reply to GIRTHQUAKE :

I have a BRZ transmission laying around and while the starter is in vaguely the right place, the rest isn't very close.  The RX8 variant of this gearbox looks closer, but obviously would still require an adapter.

I really think for anything to bolt up, we're going to need to find some weird missing link engine I'm not aware of- otherwise the 3SGE stuff is going to be the closest.

Marc at Frankenstein Motorworks is working on a bellhousing/clutch setup for the Aisin BRZ trans. It will likely be a high quality piece when it's finished, but it is not his primary focus so timeline = ?

You've got access to a super fancy 3D scanner... Presumably a CNC as well?  Seems like you've got this. 

Maybe a stupid question, but what does a Tacoma manual transmission look like?

In reply to MrJoshua :

Intersting- there are bearings and stuff built into the BRZ bellhousing so it'll probably be pretty machining intensive.

In reply to Berck and stafford1500:

There is always that, but since this is in the "what if" phase right now I'd like to exhaust all other options before deciding to do something time consuming and expensive.

In reply to Median :

Some of the V6 variants look close-ish, but a truck transmission tends to shift like a truck transmission.

What about the manual transmission from an IS250? A quick look is that it was attached to a 4gr-fse V6, any chance it is similar being also a GR series V6?

In reply to Sonic :

Eyeballing it, that and the other -FSE engine variants look like a no-go.  If I happened across one I'd take a closer look, but they're not really significantly easier to find than the Altezza transmission.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯ said:

In reply to MrJoshua :

Intersting- there are bearings and stuff built into the BRZ bellhousing so it'll probably be pretty machining intensive.

 

Hmmm. I don't want to overstate my knowledge. It's possible he said he was working on a solution and I immediately stored that as bellhousing.  All I know he was working on making a BRZ/FRS trans bolt to a 2GR, and thats where my knowledge stops.  

I'm not sure, but I'm here for what you find. 

In reply to AWSX1686 (Forum Supporter) :

That starter seems to be the primary issue, otherwise there are a few "kinda fits" options in the truck V6 and 3SGE realms.  As far as I can tell, anyway.

Time-consuming for sure. Expensive? Seems like you make enough of them to resell and cover your costs?

Can confirm, the third gen Tacoma transmission shifts truck like, but not terrible. Longish throw, a bit notchy, and would really prefer you allow the synchros to take take their time to spin up. Far from the worst, but pretty far from the Miata 5 speed ideal. 

I think the W58 (and other W5x variants) came in more than just the supras. Didn't some of the trucks get them too? I saw some reference that 22RE celiacs also had them. 

You might ask RX8 Gearbox Adapters in Wales.  He makes adapter plates to put the RX8 gearbox onto various motors.  But if you have access to a good scanner, you should be able to come up with something that a laser cutter or CNC shop could create.  

They did not make a manual IS350?

Incidentally, since you have been intimate inside an FA20, you'll find that the 2GR is contructed very similarly.  A real pain in the tail to disassemble and reassemble because it is a huge onion stack.  That also has numerous external oil lines.

W55s from the IS300 are probably cheaper than the W58 though less stout I guess. What's behind stick shift V6 Camaros and Mustangs?

V6 camaros from the late 90s are t5wc.  Not sure that's the beast that should be used in this application.

A T5WC would probably be able to handle this at stock power levels, and the torque in the 2GR-FE isn't crazy off idle and hits mostly in the mid range. Couple that with non-sticky tires and traction-limited surfaces, and I think it would hold up fine. I've had 2 T5 WC's in 5.0 Mustangs and a T45 (very similar) in a 4.6L modular Mustang GT. Have also owned our V6 Rav4 for 17 years now, so I'm also familiar with the 2GR-FE.

In reply to Pete. (l33t FS) :

Only a manual IS250, and they put the starter on the engine instead of the bellhousing on those- ultimately that looks like the main difference, the V6 castings intended for longways mounting were different in the starter region.

In reply to dj06482 (Forum Supporter) :

Rally is deceptively hard on transmissions- it's not the grip level, it's the repeated slamming of jumps and choppy stuff.  Also, I've shifted a T5 in a rally application and I'd really rather not do that again, it's like stirring a bucket of wrenches using a crowbar.

That clicks.  I know the IS250 was the only one available with all wheel drive, so they probably have the starter in the valley to accomodate that.  And if you're going to make ONE engine a certain way, may as well make them ALL that way if it doesn't cause any other problems.

You'd think I would know this by now, but I am pretty sure the transverse GRs have the starter mounted on the transmission, on the transmission side of the flexplate.