Seeking AWD car, looking for advice

I'm planning on getting a car for my son to learn to drive with and I need some input.  My dd is a company car, so he can't use that.  My wife drives a minivan and my vehicle is a crew cab long bed 3/4 4wd truck that I love, so it's out.  We live in the mountains, and have a steep gravel driveway.  I don't want to have to be scraping the driveway every other week until he learns how to drive on gravel, so I'm looking for something AWD to help compensate.  I'd like something that's a little cool, but primarily safe, reliable, and hopefully not crazy on insurance.  I'm trying to stay in the $5k range, and I've found some options that I have no experience with.  BMW Xi 3 series, X3, Audi A4 Quattro, A6 Quattro, CRV, RAV4, Subaru Baja, Subaru Impreza, what other options do y'all recommend?  What issues have y'all seen, what do I need to look out for, what should I just flat out avoid?  

Who is paying for maintenance and upkeep?  All the German stuff will need more of it and cost more to do.  

Suzuki SX4. Volvo S40 and V50. Lancer SE has an awd. Plenty of small awd pickups. 

Subaru (stop wasting our time :)

Honda CR-V.  

smokindav said:

Subaru (stop wasting our time :)

This>^^^^^  I bought an Impreza for my son as his first car and it was completely reliable and with out faults. He drove it for four years in college and then another two afterwards until he got a good job. Sold it to a friend and it's still going strong. Now I did purchase it new and we took good care of it but isn't that what you should do anyway? I am on my 5th Subaru (all WRX/STi) and they are still my car of choice. 

In reply to dean1484 :

I will.  So far, my experience with BMW's has been good, but it's only been E30, E36 and E46.  Audi's I'm not really familiar with, but my VW Golf that I had (granted, 30 years ago), was bulletproof.  I'm just wanting to make sure that these attractive looking cars weren't ticking time bombs.

In reply to smokindav :

I'm on my 3rd myself, love them, but it's hard finding a good looking Impreza or Baja around here.  Trying to avoid the wagon as a first vehicle, don't want the hormones to kick in and him have so much room to get in trouble 

I have a Baja right now and I absolutely love it. It goes through snow like no other. Minor gripes is that it only seats four and it really needs another 30 or 40hp, because it is really pokey (and mine is a stick shift).

Subaru. Or if he doesn't want to be mistaken for a lesbian, a Volvo AWD

Infinity G35x

The nice part with the nonturbo Subarus is they are slow - ice age slow.  So not a lot of power to worry about getting in trouble with.

Love the Germans, but for a first car, get a subaru. Agree on the non-turbo models being slow, good safe vehicle which will need much less $$ maintenance and repairs than any of the  much nicer German cars that also fall in that price range.

GTwannaB said:

Suzuki SX4. Volvo S40 and V50. Lancer SE has an awd. Plenty of small awd pickups. 

S40s are REALLY FRICKING EXPENSIVE for some reason, if you want all wheel drive.

On the bright side, all AWD models had turbos.

On the down side, they absolutely suck to work on because they crammed a long engine, a huge trans, and an AWD unit, in the front of a Focus, which is kind of a crappy car to begin with maintenance-wise. 

HoserRacing said:

Trying to avoid the wagon as a first vehicle, don't want the hormones to kick in and him have so much room to get in trouble 

Pfft. I got into trouble in a first gen RX7. 

Subaru.....

Though I have to ask: why does he need an AWD car as his first car? A Civic or Corolla or Sonata will be cheaper to buy, operate, insure, etc than most AWDs car and are still fully capable of dealing with pretty much any weather conditions, provided you put appropriate tires on them. If your wife has a minivan and gets up your driveway, any FWD econobox with good tires should be able to do the same, I would think. And I'm saying that as someone who daily drives a WRX, has a CX-9 and a Sequoia....so has plenty of AWD//4WD experience plus my many FWD cars before those.

BTW, my rally car is a RWD old e30, and it will go up ANY gravel hill in pretty much any condition with the right tires. Just saying.

As to tearing up gravel....AWD will do it just as well, except it will leave trenches twice as deep (just ask anyone who rallycrosses) lol

Speed 6. 

In reply to irish44j :

AWD don't dig trenches because even with 300-400hp they don't have enough power to get tirespin.

Now, on the other hand, I remember a certain Omni GLH rally car on Yokohama snow/mud tires that practically required us to move the start line over after every time IT ran.  Huge power + rototiller like knobby tires = trenching tool with numbers on the side.

How about one to AVOID:  

'02-'07 Saturn Vue cute ute.  

The prices will seem right for some low mileage examples but...

From '02-'05 the 4cyl AWD was a good engine mated to a HORRIBLE trans.  The trans is a CVT which was the subject of a class action lawsuit.  The trans became known for a expected life of 60k miles , just about enough to get the car out of warranty.  Many were replaced but now, with Saturn gone and this trans used nowhere else in the GM line-up, there are no replacements at any cost and there is no real repair.  

In 6cyl form, the Saturn Vue of '02 & '03 got a bad design, Opel engine shared with the Caddilac Catera (enough said.)  As a big improvement, '05-'07 got a 3.5L sourced from Honda. Yeah, a real Honda motor.  As good as that seems, this engine was matted to a real Honda trans--the same trans in the early Oddesey that was know for failures and is know for fluid changes every 25k miles if you want to make it last.  

93gsxturbo said:

The nice part with the nonturbo Subarus is they are slow - ice age slow.  So not a lot of power to worry about getting in trouble with.

Quoted for truth.  Unfortunately, Subaru wrecked its chances of making a favorable first impression on me.  I had a 2001 Outback that was nothing but trouble.  Head gaskets, clutch issues, etc.  I know lots of people swear by them, but be careful, some of their stuff is junk.   And yes.  The n/a's are most definitely underpowered.

Forester or Honda element. 

In my searching and research I have come up with two real possibilities.

I wanted a manual wagon with some swagger, so I'm looking for an E46it, but when I search CL I am amazed at the number of Suby offerings.  I have only really researched the E46 and the Suby, but both excel at the bulletproofness of the AWD system.  The BMW is more of a "let's send a little torque to the front and call it AWD" and the Suby is "let's get as close to 4wd as we can without sacrificing drivability" but they both do well.

The rest of the E46 will be more intense on the repair end, but don't fall into the trap of "german cars are expensive to maintain."  This is a myth.  They use common fluids (except auto trans) but otherwise, you change the oil, brake pads, and tires and drive it.  Yes, you'll need a radiator every 100k, and valve cover gaskets and oil pan gaskets every 150k, but its important to separate repair from maintenance in your mind.  BMWs are a little more expensive to repair and will need it a bit more frequently, but they don't have any real additional maintenance requirements.

Having owned a few Mercedes and BMWs, as long as you don't get the latest and greatest, the aftermarket has you covered with parts that aren't really any more expensive than a Chevy.

Because every kid needs a bit of humility with there first car I vote Asteck. 

HoserRacing said:

In reply to smokindav :

I'm on my 3rd myself, love them, but it's hard finding a good looking Impreza or Baja around here.  Trying to avoid the wagon as a first vehicle, don't want the hormones to kick in and him have so much room to get in trouble 

I got in to plenty of “trouble” in 2 seat sports cars. If there’s a will, and at that age there definitely is, he’ll find a way. 

Subarus are probably the right choice, even though I don’t think I’d own another one at this point due to the many gasket and seal leaks my 2012 outback has had. 

dean1484 said:

Because every kid needs a bit of humility with there first car I vote Asteck. 

This right here.  Only shiny happy person kids had cool cars in HS.  The cooler the car the bigger an shiny happy person the kid was.