Outback wagon is the greatest. I am on my 3rd wagon and I have 260,000 and two challange showups with the same car. I will say that even with stick they are slow. But for a high school kid that is perfect.
Outback wagon is the greatest. I am on my 3rd wagon and I have 260,000 and two challange showups with the same car. I will say that even with stick they are slow. But for a high school kid that is perfect.
KyAllroad (Jeremy) said:dean1484 said:Because every kid needs a bit of humility with there first car I vote Asteck.
This right here. Only shiny happy person kids had cool cars in HS. The cooler the car the bigger an shiny happy person the kid was.
x1000 . At my school, it was always a kinda "how terrible is your car?" contest among us stoner-musician types. Unless you were a real gear head where took your car to the track or strip on the weekend, you were kinda looked down upon for driving something "cool". If AWD is a necessity, I'd vote for Volvo v70/S60. 1st and 2nd gen CR-v's, while not true AWD, do all the things trueAWD cars do too. And they're useful to boot.
CRV, Element or RAV4
Don't worry about the sexual prowess of a longroof. Wagons are female replant in high school.
John Welsh said:How about one to AVOID:
'02-'07 Saturn Vue cute ute.
The prices will seem right for some low mileage examples but...
From '02-'05 the 4cyl AWD was a good engine mated to a HORRIBLE trans. The trans is a CVT which was the subject of a class action lawsuit. The trans became known for a expected life of 60k miles , just about enough to get the car out of warranty. Many were replaced but now, with Saturn gone and this trans used nowhere else in the GM line-up, there are no replacements at any cost and there is no real repair.
In 6cyl form, the Saturn Vue of '02 & '03 got a bad design, Opel engine shared with the Caddilac Catera (enough said.) As a big improvement, '05-'07 got a 3.5L sourced from Honda. Yeah, a real Honda motor. As good as that seems, this engine was matted to a real Honda trans--the same trans in the early Oddesey that was know for failures and is know for fluid changes every 25k miles if you want to make it last.
Funny you should mention that. My ex had a Saturn Vue with the CVT and one day on the freeway it decided to just puke out the trans right on the road. I think it was around 60K miles too. Went to the junk yard as it wasn't worth/too expensive in getting it repaired. No wonder I don't recommend GM products .
Best car for the best price.
It is really surprising what a FWD car with proper winter tires can do.
I had a car that the passenger seat hight was perfect.
Thanks guys. AWD is pretty much a necessity, 1/4 mile driveway with 300' of elevation change. The wife's new minivan is AWD because she kept making a mess with the FWD Odyssey. I'm on my 3rd Outback, love them, that's why I'm thinking Impreza or Baja, but it's hard to find good ones around here. That's why I'm trying to look for options. My brother & father have had FWD CRV's, they've been great. Forgot about the Element, that's something that could be fun. I'm not looking for super cool, I started out with a 10 year old Corolla with black vinyl interior, AM radio that only worked when it wanted to, no A/C, and an amazing 1.1L engine, and I turned out fine. Girls are not going to like him because he's got the badass car, that's for sure. I do want it to have enough character that he will know pride of ownership and learn how to care for a car.
My daughter bought a 2004 Infinity G35 last year for @ $5000. Nice car, reliable. 100k miles. We were looking for a Subaru when we got it, but the Subarus around here for that money are rusty and a lot more miles.
I would have killed myself in a G35/7 in HS. Another vote for the Subi coming from a Minnesotan who knows snow. If is wasn't for the elevation on the driveway, I would say FWD also. We had big hills around me, but a couple different ways to enter the neighborhood when things were bad. Driveways are not the same thing. CRV or RAV 4 are close 2nd options, but I don't know how they price out in your area.
Or get a 2nd AWD mini van like the Mrs, you know it works and mini vans are nearly free everywhere as I understand.
I’m not sure I understand the “it’s safe because it’s slow” argument. On its face it makes sense but when I think about it more, the most dangerous moments I’ve ever put myself into was in a 2.0 Ford Ranger and a 1973 Super Beetle.
I think most kids statistically get into crashes in boring, slowish cars because they’re inexperienced and/or distracted not so much because their car was too fast or powerful for them.
ebonyandivory said:I’m not sure I understand the “it’s safe because it’s slow” argument. On its face it makes sense but when I think about it more, the most dangerous moments I’ve ever put myself into was in a 2.0 Ford Ranger and a 1973 Super Beetle.
I think most kids statistically get into crashes in boring, slowish cars because they’re inexperienced and/or distracted not so much because their car was too fast or powerful for them.
You just made a good argument. Subaru's or CRV's are not really "slow" except by performance standards. But, it's also not as likely to overpower the tires & induce an unintended "Oh crap" moment like a Mustang or Camaro. I'm planning on the TRSS school as soon as possible after his license and give him some experience that will hopefully help him be safe.
Curtis said:The BMW is more of a "let's send a little torque to the front and call it AWD" and the Suby is "let's get as close to 4wd as we can without sacrificing drivability" but they both do well.
I'm thinking that the awd systems in the E46 and the system in the Subaru manual transmission cars is actually pretty similar, they're both just open diffs, though a lot of Subarus have rear LSDs. In the E83 X3 and later E53 X5s and every other AWD BMW (e90+), they use a similar system to the automatic Subarus, with an electrically actuated clutchpack that allows for slip during times of high steering angle and other situations where a locked transfer case is a bad thing.
Layout-wise, the transfer case/transmission setup is a lot like a pickup truck on the BMWs, where there is a transfer case behind the transmission, and a front driveshaft sending power to a front differential that is bolted to the oil pan. Unlike a pickup, there is a "tunnel" through the oil pan that is used to allow the passenger side cv axle to pass through and hook to the differential.
I'm not totally convinced on the reliability aspect of the BMW transfer cases, since I read a lot on the internet about reliability issues. I personally have had three AWD BMWs, and other than some issues caused by worn out fluid (that caused chattering, like worn fluid on an LSD), they've been good to me. Of course, now that I've said that I've totally jinxed myself.
Didn't think that was the case with Suby manuals and open diff transfer cases. The one my ex had used some kind of electronically controlled limited slip thing that the brochure said could change the torque bias from something like 40/60 to 15/85 IIRC
Curtis said:Didn't think that was the case with Suby manuals and open diff transfer cases. The one my ex had used some kind of electronically controlled limited slip thing that the brochure said could change the torque bias from something like 40/60 to 15/85 IIRC
The manuals trans cars are just differentials, though the google is telling me that there was some sort of viscous setup in there, it was never a fully open diff unless the fluid wears out. The automatics have the fancy variable electronic clutchpack transfer case type system like BMW has. The WRX STI has something completely different, and I'm not sure about the regular WRX. This is all just recall from when I was looking for 2004-2008 Foresters a couple months ago.
Subaru used many different kinds of diffs in the manual trans cars. Some are open, some are VLSD. I have heard that some are cam and pawl.
BMW generally used a planetary diff to get a fixed 33/67 torque split.
2nd generation Mercedes 4-matic wagon
I vote for an Impreza - automatic N/A; too slow to get in trouble. Should go anywhere with decent winter tires. The BMWs are nicer, more powerful and will cost more to buy and more to maintain for a similar priced used car.
A not too rusty 1st gen Impreza with the 2.2l would be the bomb. 2nd gens are much safer in crashes, but have more HG leaks.
Also Saab 9-2x. Nicer interior for same price.
In reply to Aspen :
1st gens in good shape are also worth like double what a GD is.
Knurled. said:In reply to Aspen :
1st gens in good shape are also worth like double what a GD is.
That's because they look so much better.
irish44j said:Subaru.....Though I have to ask: why does he need an AWD car as his first car?
My first car was 100 hp, but had some mechanical problems so was more like 50 hp. I learned to be very patient.
Years later, driving an AWD, I took a highway onramp curve a bit too fast in the rain. Not excessively fast, but a bit fast. The car slid a bit, and I made the newb mistake of jumping off the gas. The car did a big "wiggle" then settled down. A FWD or RWD might have swapped ends and have put me over the side of the 30 foot dropoff.
To this day, I wonder, did AWD save my life, or was I only going a bit too fast for conditions in the first place because I was used to the effortless control and safety of having AWD.
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