Selling my AP2 S2000 to buy a GR Corolla? Have I lost my mind?

EDIT: after driving a GR Corolla locally, I have changed my mind. I am no longer interested in the little Toyota. See 2nd page for review of the GR Corolla. 

I’m thinking about selling my beautiful laguna blue AP2 Honda S2000. To buy a Corolla. Oh, what has the world come to?

Prepare yourself for the overly convoluted, painfully long-winded, word-salad of a rant I’ll surely type out:

I’ve pitched around the idea of selling the S2000 a few times in the past, but never pulled the trigger.

I’ve had the S2000 a little over 4 years, which is a record for me. This is my 2nd S2000. I spent a season autoXing it in CS a couple years back, but other than that, it’s just served as an occasional weekend/date night car.

I currently have 4 cars: 2008 Honda S2000, 1996 Acura Integra GS-R, 2008 BMW 128i 6MT and 2008 Nissan Xterra. That’s not counting my work car (which I use for commuting) or my wife’s cars.

At this point, the S2000 gets driven less than anything else in my stable. I would be shocked if I’ve driven it 1000 miles in the last year (likely closer to ~500 miles). It’s essentially bone stock. The only “mod” on the car is a set of OZ wheels (OEM sized)- the stock wheels have just been sitting in my basement storage closet. I’ve sold my CRX and EK hatch a while back, but here’s a quick photo of the car in question:



It has a clean Carfax, 10/10 matching VINS, garage kept, I doubt it’s ever seen snow (it has rained a couple of times, coming back from autoX), 65k miles, pretty immaculate condition and I’ve done all the preventative maintenance on the car. For the first couple years of ownership, I drove it pretty regularly. The last couple of years, I’ve hardly touched it. I drove it to get emissions tested yesterday and it was the first time I’ve driven it in over a month.

I live in Colorado, so usually around this time of year, the S2000 will stay pretty much dormant in the garage until springtime.

I probably started driving the S2000 even less after picking up the Integra GS-R. The Integra is running a set of OEM Type R springs on Koni shocks, a Type R transmission w/LSD and a bit of a power bump, pushing it up to around stock Type R power. Essentially, the Integra feels like driving a Type R- still very OEM streetable (that will likely change in the future). I’ve been telling my wife for a while now- the Integra feels very much like a FWD S2000. As a result, I find myself driving the Integra easily 5 times as often as I drive the S2000. No matter what I do to it, the Integra feels more disposable than the S2000- it’s a nice DC2, but has more scratches, dings and miles than the S2000, so I don’t feel so hesitant to drive it.

Integra: https://grassrootsmotorsports.com/forum/build-projects-and-project-cars/the-teg-a-dc2-road-to-all-the-hondas-story/258401/page1/

BMW: https://grassrootsmotorsports.com/forum/build-projects-and-project-cars/e82-128i-when-your-projected-track-car-turns-into-your-daily/258441/page1/

If there’s a cloud in the sky? Integra or my BMW. A bit of snow on the ground? Integra or Xterra. Going to get groceries? Integra, BMW or Xterra. Going to a tight parking lot where I might get door dinged? Integra, BMW or Xterra. Going on a longer freeway drive? BMW. Have to deal with a bit of traffic? BMW, Xterra or Integra.

The only real time I grab the keys to the S2000 is on the perfect day, headed to the perfect road, which admittedly, almost never happens. Even on those days, I rarely even put the top down anymore (black leather interior on a sunny day usually ends with my back looking like I just got into a water gun fight).

In my mind, the S2000 is too nice/worth too much money for me to justify turning it into a track car and F22C motors are now trading for $6000+, making money shifts an expensive proposition. I sold my first S2000 for financial reasons many years ago and took my time looking for my 2nd S2000- I wanted a 2008-2009 in laguna blue, which is a tough combo to find. I was psyched that it came with the OEM front and rear lip spoilers! The exact spec I was looking for. Now, the car has become less of a car and more of a collector’s object that collects dust in my garage.

I also considered modding the car, to make it more interesting and see if that revived my want to drive it more often… but these cars are very well-tuned from the factory. I have no problem with the car’s suspension or inherent balance… basic bolt-ons do nothing… I don’t want to cut anything up that will de-value the car… and I’m not sure I want to spend $6000+ on a supercharger, or that it would even make me want to drive it more (there’s a chance if I thought the reliability was lower, I might drive it even less…).

It's a great car. On the perfect road, on the perfect day, it’s truly wonderful to drive! On the street, running errands, it’s not terribly appealing to drive.

I considered just selling the car and re-purposing the money into some form of investment. That’s the smart thing to do, but I’m not very smart sometimes (who am I kidding- most of the time).

I considered selling the S2000 and buying something like a Porsche or Lotus to replace it- but the more I think about it, the more I believe I’ll be in the exact same boat: it’ll turn into a garage queen that I’ll rarely ever drive.

I don’t really want another project car. Technically, the Integra and BMW are both “projects” (more the Integra than the BMW). Hard pass.

Most new cars don’t appeal to me, for one reason or another. One of the only exceptions is the new GR Corolla.

I’ve owned several AWD street rally cars in the past (x2 WRX’s, an STI, x2 Golf R’s and a Focus RS). Those cars have always appealed to me- they’re fun, usable year-round and the boost helps with the loss of power at elevation (5200 ft above sea level).

I’ve sat in the GR Corolla at the most recent Denver Auto Show and the seating position seemed to fit me like a glove. It was the only car at the auto show that I really found myself drawn to…

So, I’m now considering selling my S2000 and buying a GR Corolla to replace it. They’re opposite ends of the spectrum, but I feel like I would drive it a whole lot more. There’s likely a price delta between the 2, but I’m sure I could just sell the S2000 and cover the difference to avoid having a car payment.

Due to the season, I would likely sell the S2000 in the spring to maximize funds for this, hoping that GR Corolla inventories would also build up a bit in the meantime. I know dealers are doing insane markups, but I’ve done at least a handful of fly-and-drives- I have no problem doing a nationwide search for a reasonably priced car.

Have I lost my mind thinking of selling my S2000? Thoughts? Experiences? Winning lotto numbers anyone is interested in sharing?

I'd do it- but i am definitely a Toyota guy, and the growly corolla tickles all the right fancies. 

Mndsm said:

I'd do it- but i am definitely a Toyota guy, and the growly corolla tickles all the right fancies. 

I typically have no specific brand loyalty, but I've owned a plethora of Mazda's and Honda's over the years. 

I'm pretty sure the only Toyota I've ever owned was an SW20 1991 Toyota MR2 Turbo, which I sold almost 2 decades ago. 

Sounds like it's time to sell it. Seems like a great candidate for BaT. 

roninsoldier83 said:

Mndsm said:

I'd do it- but i am definitely a Toyota guy, and the growly corolla tickles all the right fancies. 

I typically have no specific brand loyalty, but I've owned a plethora of Mazda's and Honda's over the years. 

I'm pretty sure the only Toyota I've ever owned was an SW20 1991 Toyota MR2 Turbo, which I sold almost 2 decades ago. 

I just gravitate towards em. They always seem to fit me good, ergonomics work, lines work, etc. Sometimes a brand fits, like a type of shirt. 

Would the AWD and hatch back body of the GR mean you could also sell the XTerra?

amg_rx7 (Forum Supporter) said:

Sounds like it's time to sell it. Seems like a great candidate for BaT. 

My thoughts exactly. I figured I would list it locally and if it didn't sell for somewhere near my asking price, BaT would be my next option. I still have all 3 factory keys, OEM tonneau cover, etc. It's essentially a BaT car. Which, is probably why I don't drive it much anymore. 

Mndsm said:

roninsoldier83 said:

Mndsm said:

I'd do it- but i am definitely a Toyota guy, and the growly corolla tickles all the right fancies. 

I typically have no specific brand loyalty, but I've owned a plethora of Mazda's and Honda's over the years. 

I'm pretty sure the only Toyota I've ever owned was an SW20 1991 Toyota MR2 Turbo, which I sold almost 2 decades ago. 

I just gravitate towards em. They always seem to fit me good, ergonomics work, lines work, etc. Sometimes a brand fits, like a type of shirt. 

That's fair. If I'm being honest, the S2000 is the only Honda that has ever fit me well. I suspect most Honda's are designed for smaller folks (I'm 6'2", 215 lbs). 

Every other Honda I've ever driven has caused me to have pain in my right knee (old injury). In my Integra, to get rid of this problem and fix the ergonomics, I had to mount an aftermarket seat to the floor and extend the shifter by several inches (tilting it back towards me). A few years back I bought an FK8 Civic Type R- outstanding car to drive! If it wouldn't have hurt my right knee, I likely would have kept it much longer. Unfortunately, no matter what I did to the seat and pedals, the pain never went away, which led to me selling it prematurely. 

For whatever inexplicable reason, the S2000 is the only Honda that has never caused me pain... because RWD, maybe? 

I'd sell it. It will bring stupid money on BAT. 
 

The Corolla will be fun. 

STM317 said:

Would the AWD and hatch back body of the GR mean you could also sell the XTerra?

Potentially, yes. Although I wasn't planning on selling the Xterra. The Xterra has a few additional uses: 

-Deep snow. We only get "big" blizzards once every couple years, but when we do, it's nice to have something with ground clearance and meaty/knobby tires (it's wearing a new set of Wildpeaks right now!). 

-While the hatch for the GR is nice, there's considerably more space in the Xterra. I've thrown engines in the back of the Xterra... I also recently picked up an extra Integra hatchback that I threw in the Xterra (no way that's fitting in the back of a Corolla!)... for Home Depot runs, it's nice having a large area I can throw things into. The rear area of the Xterra is also fully plastic and fairly well "worn"- translation: I don't care if oil, dirt or other substances spill all over the rear- I can just hose it out without a care in the world lol. 

-The Xterra can tow 5000 lbs. It's not the best tow vehicle on earth, but it's enough to tow a track car back and forth in a pinch. 

The idea of saving on insurance is appealing, but the Xterra is the cheapest car we insure and I think registration is only like $58 a year. It kinda makes it tough to part with. 

I bet Ryan (mr2elises2000blahblah) would be interested in buying it or knows someone who is.

Prime BAT candidate there.

I'm in a similar boat with my bmw. I am vaguely afraid to drive it and it just sits in the garage. I don't see a point in owning a car that I don't want to drive.

That has to be the most convoluted My Car Is For Sale add I have ever seen!   
 

And yes, I suspect someone will gladly pay you way too much money for that on BaT!

buzzboy said:

Prime BAT candidate there.

I'm in a similar boat with my bmw. I am vaguely afraid to drive it and it just sits in the garage. I don't see a point in owning a car that I don't want to drive.

Hard to justify driving older, pristine cars that gain a cult following and appreciate in value. What kind of BMW? 

aircooled said:

That has to be the most convoluted My Car Is For Sale add I have ever seen!   
 

And yes, I suspect someone will gladly pay you way too much money for that on BaT!

thank you! I think I'm more or less typing out my thoughts. I neglected to mention some cons that came to mind: 

1. If I regret selling it, it will be very difficult and expensive to find another late model AP2 in laguna blue. 

2. In anger, on a mountain road, with the top down, it's possibly the most fun car I've ever pitched around. I've explored many canyon roads and I haven't really felt motivated to seek new canyon roads out for the past 1-2 years, but it is a very fun car. 

3. I do have quite a bit of history with this car and know it very well. 

The only one of those that is relevant is #1, which, at this point, I doubt that's applicable. So I suppose it's pretty much a for sale post, without actually putting it up for sale. Hopefully the kind folks over at BaT are generous come spring time. 

I would not sell. I sold my Suzuka blue, 2004, 40k miles in order to buy a 911  which I love dearly, but In hindsight I regret selling mine. I don't know of any Toyota I would sell an s2k for. Just drive the car more and enjoy it. 

I am going to be the contrarian here, keep it for another year. You will NOT lose a penny and have some time to really think it through. 

I own a 2006 since brand new, and will probably never sell it for the same reasons you state, difficult to replace and they are appreciating. I can probably sell mine (58k miles) for the same amount I bought it for. 

On a side note, mine is supercharged and its a hoot. It has been extremely reliable with 2 coast to coast trips and a few trips to the dragon. Completely transformed the car, for the better.

Also, I need to check but I think mine only came with two keys  

Edit:

Never mind, forgot about the gray key 

JimS said:

I would not sell. I sold my Suzuka blue, 2004, 40k miles in order to buy a 911  which I love dearly, but In hindsight I regret selling mine. I don't know of any Toyota I would sell an s2k for. Just drive the car more and enjoy it. 

 

If you don't mind me asking, what is it that you miss about the S2000? And how does it contrast with your feelings for the 911? 

I sold my first S2000 for financial reasons, years ago. I felt like there was a lot more I wanted to do with it. Even though at the time, I was rarely driving it. At the time, I also had a Focus RS and found myself driving the FoRS a lot more than my S2000, as I had just as much fun pitching it around, but could do it year round. I sold my FoRS after Ford's big recall for that motor. I brought it in for the recall, they had the car for a couple of days... I picked it up and when I got home, I found out there was a massive oil leak (they forgot to tighten something down)- the car was down 3+ quarts of oil. Since the engine never blew, Ford wasn't about to give me a new engine, but with that much oil lost, I didn't trust the motor (bearings) long-term. So I sold it. Damn shame, as it was a fun car. Not a great daily (those cars are a bit rough!), but a great all-around fun car. I think that was the last pseudo rally car I've owned. I considered buying another one, but never did. 

A couple years later I bought another S2000 (my current S2000). I have autoXed this car (took home a couple trophies that year!), but never put it on a big track (I did track my first S2000- so I had already gotten that out of my system). As mentioned, I've been hesitant to track this car due to F22C motors becoming more scarce and pricey... plus not wanting to do anything to devalue the car. I've driven it on countless mountain roads (we live in Colorado) and gotten some great experiences out of it. 

I haven't enjoyed driving it as much, especially over the past year. I hate to say this, but I find myself frequently enjoying driving the Integra more than the S2000... they both have that more high-strung old-school Honda feel, but I pitch the Integra around to a greater degree, with far less fear of scuffing it up. On a back road, the Integra is just as much fun, but more confidence inspiring. It's setup to be completely neutral (what understeer?), whereas the S2000 has always been just a bit more edgy. The best part is: in the winter time, I keep driving the Integra, while the S2000 stays in the garage... 

Which is why I'm not terribly certain I would miss the S2000. Although if I'm being entirely honest with myself, I remember the first time I mentioned selling the S2000 to my wife: it was a couple years back when I also owned an NC2 Miata... I found myself driving the NC far more than the S2000. I also found that the NC offered ~90% of the fun of the S2000, for a small fraction of the price. The S2000 certainly has the better powertrain, but I found I actually preferred a couple things about the NC over the S2000- namely the steering and the feeling of lightness that comes with being ~300 lbs lighter. There's not many cars I regret selling, but I probably should have kept that NC lol. Much cheaper than the S2000 and used 2.5L engines for those cars are plentiful, selling commonly for $500... sold the NC only to fund my next track car. If there were more places for the NC to compete, I would have kept it and built it into a track car. 

Can you really find a Toyota dealer with one available for sale?

Slippery said:

I am going to be the contrarian here, keep it for another year. You will NOT lose a penny and have some time to really think it through. 

I own a 2006 since brand new, and will probably never sell it for the same reasons you state, difficult to replace and they are appreciating. I can probably sell mine (58k miles) for the same amount I bought it for. 

On a side note, mine is supercharged and its a hoot. It has been extremely reliable with 2 coast to coast trips and a few trips to the dragon. Completely transformed the car, for the better.

 

Not a bad idea. 

With that said, I wasn't planning on selling it until springtime anyway, so likely another ~6 months or so. Plenty of time to give it some thought. I might see if I can catch a ride in a supercharged car in the meantime, just to see. 

Although I would still be hesitant to really start modding it, given the value of the car. If I was dead-set on modding another roadster, I would probably get another NC Miata- lighter, much cheaper, slightly stiffer chassis, more aluminum=less likelihood of rust, better steering feel and much cheaper motor options if something goes wrong... as a side note, the folks at KMiata have been working on a Honda K-swap kit for the NC for the past couple of years. I would think a K24 powered NC would be a riot to drive! Especially with K24's being so cheap and readily available... 

Slippery said:

Also, I need to check but I think mine only came with two keys  

Edit:

Never mind, forgot about the gray key 

 

Lol, yep, the gray key! 

Datsun240ZGuy said:

Can you really find a Toyota dealer with one available for sale?

I suppose I don't know. According to Cars.com, there are ~220 of them listed nationwide, with a few of them here in my home state. I'm sure some (many?) of those cars are probably spoken for, but surely not all of them, right? 

A few of the used ones listed have had substantial price drops, which tells me they're not selling immediately. I imagine with interest rates going up and being in a bit of a recession, there will be a few hanging around here and there. When I bought my FK8 Type R, I had to call a plethora of dealers and ended up flying out to the east coast. I wouldn't plan on shopping until I sold my S2000 in the spring; I would hope inventories would build up just a bit by then. When I bought my Focus RS, I bought it for under MSRP, locally. I refused to pay the mark-up when they first launched- I bought a Golf R instead (for invoice), kept it for a year, sold it for what I paid for it and bought my FoRS when the market cooled down. I'm in no rush. I suppose I would start really looking into it about ~6 months from now. 

There are 3 cars I regret selling as of this point in my life.  This will be one of those cars for you.  GR Corollas are a new car which means you can wait to get one. 

There is only one question:

Will you drive the GR more than the S2000?