So how slow is too slow a car to take to an HPDE event?

When I started doing track events something like 20+ years ago in the UK, it was really a case of run what ya brung, and this being the UK, paid tribute to their reputation of racing/tracking just about anything with roughly the requisite number of wheels. It's a bit different over here, and especially lately when you get the impression that you don't even need to show up with less than 300hp.

Preamble out of the way, I've got a hankering to doing something a tad idiotic - well, this is a day ending in 'y' after all - and given the original Mini's reputation as a giant killer, was wondering how hard I get laughed out of the paddock if I showed up in a slightly modified one? Yes, the ERA Mini triggered that thought, and yes, not all my fasteners are torqued to spec.

Of course, there is also the thought in the back of my mind that I want to drive Laguna Seca again (ideally next year) and if anyone here would watch a couple of YouTube episodes of this this muppet drive a Mini Cooper across the country to attend a track day?

And before someone comes back and comments that I've got enough trackable cars as is, a) yes, b) you probably missed the point and c) I refer the honourable gentleperson to my comment regarding fasteners above.

I think Sonoma would be a much more interesting track to drive with a classic mini than Laguna, but as long as you're careful in selecting the right org and rungroup I don't see any reason why it wouldn't work.

Do it.

I would love to see one in my groups.  Yes, you will get passed by the cars developed in the last 50 years, but who cares?

I think there's a YouTube channel that covers some basic mods to make them faster, too.  Look up "project binky."

:p

codrus (Forum Supporter) said:

I think Sonoma would be a much more interesting track to drive with a classic mini than Laguna, but as long as you're careful in selecting the right org and rungroup I don't see any reason why it wouldn't work.

I would probably have to seek your advice as I'm not quite up to speed anymore who the right orgs would be. I do remember that the quality of the orgs was a bit ... variable.

Honestly, if I could pull it off I'd probably try to run Laguna, Sonoma and maybe Thunderhill but I don't think the powers that be will grant me that much vacation time.

In reply to WonkoTheSane :

They'd finally succeed in closing down Laguna Seca before I'd be done making all the brackets.

Remember, there aren't slow cars, just slow drivers. At our last event there was a particular Radical and a GT3 RS that proved that point to me once again.

If you are out there driving that classic Mini the way it should be driven on track you'll only get compliments from those out there with you (provided you're keeping traffic moving around you).

I'm the guy out there in an old E28 BMW driving the wheels off it still having fun. I find even in run groups that range all the way up to current GT3 RS, GT3 Cup cars, radicals, other race cars, insert other 500+HP car here I get a lot of track to myself. Sometimes it gets busy but it's fun throwing a late point by and watching one of the mentioned cars fly up the inside and go on its way. I also know those cars are lucky to get more than one or two corners clear before catching traffic again waiting for another point by. This is at Mosport which is a very fast track.

Its one thing to show up to a track day with a current Mitsu Mirage or maybe a Nissan Versa (both used as examples of slow, mundane cars, likely with a crappy cvt.)  But, you my man, are bringing a steed with a deep racing pedigree.   

Your tiny, cheap (relative) car will garner a ton more attention that cars 5 times its price and 5 times its hp.  I expect that it will be a day of so many "high fives" and friendly waves that your arms will get tired.  

Cross country is a bold move!  My greatest fear there is that "reliability" puts the nix on arrival.  Either arrival on time or arrival at all.  My second greatest fear is "visibility."  The rest of the world will not see you.  That too could be the bane of safe arrival.  

My car is making 78-80hp at the wheels. I bring it to PCA track days.

There is know reason not to.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=awKP3BlGer8&pp=ygUOc2N1ZGVyaWEgcG9rZXk%3D

I had a friend make the jump from auto-x to track days in a stock '86 Jetta. The only thing he had done was put some good pads and some Yokahama A008Rtu's on it.

The best part was, at a Porsche Club event, he chased down a 911 and got a point by on the pit straight of Mid Ohio.

Do it, and have a blast. You will get to pass somebody.

Just do eet.  Be predictable.  No poblem.

To answer the title question, I guess it would be "when the car is obstructing traffic to a degree that it becomes a safety concern."

Assuming that's not the case, being "slow" (relatively) requires the proper mindset, that you're just happy to be out there - period. On the other hand, if there is at all any thought/goal of passing cars, it can be rather depressing driving an older car, since it's become all too easy to buy something blisteringly fast compared to cars made just 30 years ago. A Mini will absolutely clean up on a really twisty course, but such courses are not that common here in the US. Head to Willow Springs and it won't be much fun, as speeds there are very high. Even Miatas will leave a Mini behind for a dozen reasons. Again, the fun one has depends upon the proper mindset.

I've run plenty of HPDE in a stock 1.6L miata with just ECS tires, hawk HP+ brake pads, and a roll bar, often at VIR. You'll be fine. Give all the point bys and don't lift when you're on someone's bumper coming onto the straight, I promise they will move and you'll be able to carry your momentum. 

I run my car in the intermediate group and that balances the speed differential.

I ran the Honda Element on track.  I got eaten alive on the straight but hung on the tail of sports cars in the corners.

I've seen enough 100hp Miatas out there on the ones that I did, and my 160ishHP Abarth wasn't the fastest either, but I gave point-bys and had a blast.

I lost interest in instructing because the cars are getting too fast for a guy who is AARP eligible. It can kind of hamper your day constantly doing point-bys.

That said, I've seen guys run Ford Focus wagons, among other things, that would be all over much faster cars through the corners. You can have a blast driving anything. As long as you are pointing the faster guys by on the straights, nobody really cares. 

I would like to see some group start a low-HP run group for guys with vintage or small displacement cars. I'd be all-in.

A friend who is an instructor with several of the SE track day organizations often tracks his smart car.

I did VIR in a tired NA Impreza until my abuse caused it to jump timing. Was an absolute blast. I pointed a lot of folks by, many of them multiple times per session. Once I got over the fact that I was definitely in the worst suited car to track driving and just settled in to doing my best with what I'd brought, it was an absolute blast. Granted, I was running in Novice, so expectations were lower than if you were running in a "faster" run group.

As an aside, I really like the idea above for a run group that's specifically sorting out the low HP cars. Seems it would be a lot of fun without the worry that you'll encounter a 40+mph speed differential halfway down a straight.

I'm very comfortable on track with 100+ cars and a 50+ mph difference in top speeds. I mostly am on the slow end of that. An Austin/Leyland/BMC Mini is a loads faster than what I started racing in. I realize this is w2w, not track days but I don't see the problem. It takes a bit to get used to traffic management but otherwise no complaints about being slow.

johndej said:

... and don't lift when you're on someone's bumper coming onto the straight, I promise they will move and you'll be able to carry your momentum. 

People are people and some will do so - and some won't. To the OP, if you find yourself stuck behind someone, the usual solution (if the organizers don't flag him) is to pull into the pit and go right back out to free up space between you and the problem.

I was slowest a number of times with my VW Gti IT car. The worst part is when learning a track as you have to be constantly checking your mirrors for point-bys. On a short track like Lime Rock that was not fun. Palmer was better as it's a longer track.

ddavidv said:

I lost interest in instructing because the cars are getting too fast for a guy who is AARP eligible. It can kind of hamper your day constantly doing point-bys.

Interesting - I did a fair amount of in-car instructing when I lived out West, but started dialing it down when the Venn diagram between people who wouldn't listen and people with really fast cars became more of a circle. Haven't done any instructing since we moved to WV, partially because the cars are even faster here (and also because I don't seem to be able to get to the track regularly anyway).

I would like to see some group start a low-HP run group for guys with vintage or small displacement cars. I'd be all-in.

I'd love to see something like that and would happily support such an effort.

If you're in West Virginia, take it to summit point to run on Shenandoah circuit. Should be perfect technical track without the long straights to get blown up on.

johndej said:

If you're in West Virginia, take it to summit point to run on Shenandoah circuit. Should be perfect technical track without the long straights to get blown up on.

Hm, I might know a group you could time trial it with at Summit Point.   Pennsylvania Hillclimb, you might reach out and see if you can get in under the time trials nationals classes. Would be one car at a time, wouldn't be the only old British car there either. Last event had a TR6 and a Spridget. 

Jefferson in the spring, Shenandoah in the Fall..