So, I am going megasquirt....

I probably have some spare harnesses, harness stock and shielded cable if you need something.

123456789 wrote: this is what i think of when i hear megasquirt

Actually if you had a bad experience with a Megasquirt you only have yourself to blame. It is not a turnkey system it is made by and for hackers to roll their own EFI.

Your GIF brings me memories of banging my head on NAME BRAND EFI systems advertised as turn key and the unproductive hours on the phone with tech support with them running me around in circles with no resolution.

Then I discovered MegaSquirt Fairy's and Unicorns threw me a party and rainbows shot out of my ass as all the planets aligned and the birds sang in celebration! From this side of the fence I need someone to show me good reason to not use a MS, because to me it is a no brainer. I am not a fanboi and have worked on many different kinds of EFI and been to many schools for EFI diagnosis and tuning. I have a pretty good idea of what works and what can be worked with.

Proprietary systems with foreign tech support personnel working from scripted flow charts refusing to disclose "trade secrets" (how their systems work) is a victimization of folks who spent good money for something that was advertised to work.

To the new installer, don't overthink shielding. I have done many installs with no shielding and broken most of the recommended rules, with success. Shielding is important on a VR crank sensor, not usually critical on a 5v signal. Follow the grounding recommendations as best you can. And see what happens, dont wrap your wires up all bitchen in case you need to make changes.

Look at the way a OEM system is wired (they break a lot of the recommended wiring rules) and a PNP system will work.

Noise on the USB adapter another concern, No USB cable is best....

Alright, so the decision is made. Ms2 with a couple of mods, a jimstim, 8 foot wiring harness, tuning cable, usb adapter, and wideband will be ordered monday.

I'm nervous. It's a lot of money. And a whole new arena for me.

Please be as willing to help when I'm elbow deep as you are now.

Also, I'm seeing reference to two different codes. A bollings and grippo, and another. Which one do I want?

B&G is the stock code and works pretty well for basic fuel management.

MSExtra is the other code and is where all of the development and up to date documentation is centered around. The Extra code provides more features and improvements over the stock code.

I would look at the feature sets for both and see if there are any features you want.

In reply to Dusterbd13:

Go ahead and order the licenses for TunerStudio and MegaLogViewer, you'll want it for tuning and the package deal is pretty handy.

They also have a Bluetooth serial port adapter which is nice to avoid using a cable or USB adapter, plus if you have an Android phone or Tablet you can monitor it without using the laptop.

I have an MSII on B&G and an MSI on MSExtra. They both work and do the job just fine, but having used both I'd give the nod to MSExtra.

In reply to SkinnyG:

Why?

Hmmm. There ~seem~ to be more a whole lot more features on MSExtra, but they might just be hidden in the B&G code and I haven't found it yet. The organization of data is more intuitive in Tuner Studio on the MSExtra; settings are in a more logical arrangement.

Download Tuner Studio and try example projects in both types, and see what you prefer.

B&G is extremely basic. If you want to do something that would require adding extra components to a generic board, B&G probably won't do it.

It does work very well. I ran B&G code for many years. I only just very recently switched to MS2/Extra, mainly because that is what came pre-loaded when I bought it. I'm not actually doing anything beyond controlling two fuel injectors yet.

After playing with MS3-Pro on other peoples' cars, I want it for all sorts of reasons. It's extremely configurable for inputs and outputs, practically anything you could want to do is built in to the existing firmware, and the connector design is vastly superior. I feel that is especially important.

On the last one I did, it is controlling the fans and A/C compressor (native), TCC in 3rd and 4th gear and cacluating which gear the trans is in via VSS/RPM (native), boost control solenoid (native), and the evap system's purge solenoid (generic PWM output, defined by TPS curve)

I was giggling when I set it up, too.

Unfortunately, the money just isn't there for the ms3. I've pissed away far too much on the gm stuff.

I should take this opportunity to say that the mind has been made up on ms2, from diyautotune. Will be getting pre-assembled, with a few mods for knock control, dual fans, and hei, and actually idle up.

Tomorrow starts gutting the gm and all electrical from the duster. It's game time. Hopefully will have it up and running by my birthday in October.

Start off on extra code. More people running it and more documentation and bigger fb group/forum.

Wiring diagrams show a fuel pump relay and main relay powering the whole thing. 30 amp 5 pin relays be enough?

Also, how noisy in an msd 6al? How close of proximity can one be to the efi stuff? Any added precautions?

Oh, the vacuum line for ecu mounted map sensor : diameter, length, other precautions?

Dusterbd13 wrote: Wiring diagrams show a fuel pump relay and main relay powering the whole thing. 30 amp 5 pin relays be enough?

You should end up with a fuel pump relay, main relay and a wideband relay. Each relay should have a dedicated wire of suitable gauge coming from the battery. It wouldn't hurt to also run another relay just for the ignition.

Dusterbd13 wrote: Also, how noisy in an msd 6al? How close of proximity can one be to the efi stuff? Any added precautions?

The voltage output to the coil on the MSD 6AL is around 500 volts. The best bet is to keep the wires from the MSD box to the coil fairly short and routed away from any signal wires.

Dusterbd13 wrote: Oh, the vacuum line for ecu mounted map sensor : diameter, length, other precautions?

The megasquirt should be set up with a short 6 to 8 inch hose connected to the internal MAP sensor. The purpose of the short hose is so you don't stress the sensor every time the vacuum hose is disconnected. The short hose then can be spliced into a longer vacuum line.

On my application the megasquirt is about 6 feet from the engine. I used a flexible vacuum hose from the engine that connects to a 5/16 semi rigid plastic hose. The semi-rigid plastic hose goes through the cabin and then is spliced to a flexible vacuum hose and then it is spliced to the short hose .

[/URL] In this shot you can see how the vacuum hose transitions from ridged to flexible and then finely to the short hose. I eventually ended up putting an anchor clamp to keep the short hose from kinking.

Thanks doc.

I usually relay all the main power of the harness so it's not drawing through the ignition switch. Ignition always gets its own as well.

In my setup, I can't think of a clean way to route the coil wires without bundling them with sensor wiring. If that continues to be the case, I'll probably delete the 6al. I'm not sure if it's beneficial with a computer controlled hei and e-coil anyway. Especially on a 450 horsepower small block mopar that only spins 7k.

Also, you brought up an interesting idea : not mounting the megasquirt under the dash. There's not a lot of room there in my car. I will be getting the 10 foot cable, and am now thinking of going behind the rear seat back. What problems will this present? Extra noise and interference? Heat/cool issues?

ok, so there is the megamanual, and the manuals I downloaded from msextra. they seem completely different, with the megamanual being easier to understand. is there a functional difference that caused the two separate documentation strains?

Do not read Mega Manual it will give an extra user brain damage!

I hate the new Extra manuals they are not written for a new to MS user with limited insider knowledge. And I don't mean insider as "Id have to kill you if I told you", it's assumed common/historical knowledge.

I am aware of how much work went into them and trust that they will evolve.

So, the megamanual will just add confusion and difficulty? I take it that there is significant difference in what it's written for?

If running a wideband, I personally would want it powered up by the same wire that powers up the computer. The reason for this is because most wideband sensors get damaged if you run the engine without a controller powered up.

Dusterbd13 wrote: So, the megamanual will just add confusion and difficulty? I take it that there is significant difference in what it's written for?

The hardware is the same but it is not utilized the same, different ports and different signal levels.

You must use the manual that is written for the software you are using.

You wouldn't use a windows98 manual to work on a windows8 just because they both run on the same box.....

Reading the megamanual once through isnt a bad idea, lots of the basics carry over.

So, read the megamanual for education, and use the extra documents for application?

Also, any ideas wether or not the 6al should stay? If it's definitely worth keeping, I'll figure out a way to divorce the harnesses as much as possible. Maybe separate bundles, except where they pass through the same firewall grommet? If the msd is in one wiring loom, and the sensor leads in another, is this enough separation if they ran parallel to one another?

I use a 6AL. I highly, HIGHLY recommend keeping it if you are running fuel-only. The tach signal that it puts out is a rock solid noise-free square wave that is an excellent RPM input.

You'll need to use the MS to drive your tach if you have one. The 6AL can signal the MS or the tach but not both.

If you're going to be controlling ignition as well, then you can't use the 6AL's tach output as an RPM input.

I'd run the coil output wires in a separate loom, and not parallel to the others. Actually, I'd put the unit under the hood, not in the car. Mine's hanging out of sight in front of the radiator and is a good 2-3 feet away from anything fuel-injection related.