So what's the new special category for next year?

Not a player but I follow along with interest. The "driven to event"  thing really opens the door for Floridians. No emissions or inspections required for a plate here and already reasonably nearby compared with those who travel from up north. Show up with vehicle at DMV with bill of sale or previous title from another state for the vehicle that has a VIN tag and you can get a plate with proof of insurance. I brought a car there once and the lady couldn't climb through the roll cage to get the mileage on the odometer so she asked me to and gave me a plate without blinking an eye even though it had full containment seats, 6 point harnesses, fire systems, track numbers, open side pipes, and was covered with track rubber. 

In reply to NOT A TA :

Also Texas. I can insure anything with a VIN and get a 30 day plate for anything with insurance. It can be difficult to pass inspection and get a real title, but for 30 days I can do anything. 

In reply to mazdeuce - Seth :

You can get a title only in texas without an inspection. 

In reply to yupididit :

Right, but you can't get a plate without the inspection. 18 years into this state and I'm juuuuust starting to get the rules down. 

John Welsh said:

In reply to ProDarwin :

My $2015 Aristocrats 1990 Infiniti Q45 passes all of the criteria you set forth and took 10th Overall. 

Yeah, I think the racing/scoring of cars that meet that criteria would be much closer than the other cars in the challenge.  

Out of curiosity, what was the score breakdown for your car?

Canadian market hatchbacks

Don't forget to search for Pontiac fireflies. Between the Echo Hatch and Firefly, we've got grey market imports, we've got hatchbacks, we've got orphan brands. 

It's all the desires of a subclasses rolled into one! Thanks Canada. 

ProDarwin said:

John Welsh said:

In reply to ProDarwin :

My $2015 Aristocrats 1990 Infiniti Q45 passes all of the criteria you set forth and took 10th Overall. 

Yeah, I think the racing/scoring of cars that meet that criteria would be much closer than the other cars in the challenge.  

 

Out of curiosity, what was the score breakdown for your car?

https://classicmotorsports.com/media/img/2015challenge/2015ChallengeResults.pdf

looks like a 46sec autoX, 15sec drag, and 14 in concourse

top scores that year were 43sec autoX, ~10.4sec drag, and 23.75 concourse; although autoX FTD was a ~41sec run.

For what it's worth, I love the idea of a group of people running fairly simple cars on non-race tires enough that I'm moving forward on building that community, but I don't think it should be the special class. The special class should be fun and open and explainable in one to two words. The three classes so far have been luxury cars, trucks, wagons. If it takes more than two words to define the class then it's immediately too serious. T-tops, Radwood cars, body kits, Landau tops, AWD. Those are all things that don't need to be explained but can be interpreted creatively. 

Look which two topics popped up next to each other when I signed onto the forum:

OK, probably a terrible idea, but it might work if your team has decent (or hilariously bad) Dom DeLuise and Burt Reynolds imposters.

Police cars have been suggested multiple times- what if we expanded that to "emergency vehicles"?

In reply to mazdeuce - Seth :

Count me in to your “community”

¯\_(ツ)_/¯ said:

Police cars have been suggested multiple times- what if we expanded that to "emergency vehicles"?

There is enough potential in this that I'm happy to throw my vote toward it. I would suggest that they must have emergency lights and a livery that clearly demonstrates their role in society. Let the creativity flow.......

In reply to SVreX :

Sent you an email. 

mazdeuce - Seth said:

For what it's worth, I love the idea of a group of people running fairly simple cars on non-race tires enough that I'm moving forward on building that community, but I don't think it should be the special class. The special class should be fun and open and explainable in one to two words. The three classes so far have been luxury cars, trucks, wagons. If it takes more than two words to define the class then it's immediately too serious. T-tops, Radwood cars, body kits, Landau tops, AWD. Those are all things that don't need to be explained but can be interpreted creatively. 

My vote, given those criteria, would be for "Rat Rod"...  Either that or "Traditional Trans-Am" which sounds like the SCCA CAM class in some respects.

In reply to stroker :

5th place overall this year was to a rat rod Miata...

I think a lot of Fun can be had with cop cars in an UNmodded  class/ think just basics.

I can see the SCCA style cars running in two classes an over/ under engine size but still as an open class, Slicks  and mods they can make and stay close to legal.

  we can still build off the hook cars,  The A M Classes sound like most challenge cars already fit somewhere. I myself don't care where the engine is. I do like cars that LOOK like cars.

I ask again ,If you want a Tire Rule,  Why not Generals

,  if they don't have them in your size then i guess some thing could change to Accomidate

I like the TA approach, A car I built to bring to the challenge years ago was built along those lines 76 Buick Skylark/455/200r4/seville disk rear/b-body brakes/ TA springs swaybars and quick steer,  the basics. was a lot of fun in the Mountains.

GTXVette said:

I ask again ,If you want a Tire Rule,  Why not Generals

,  if they don't have them in your size then i guess some thing could change to Accomidate

General was a sponsor of the event previously, but not this year (2018). If another tire sponsor was signed up then the magazine could probably call out a spec manufacturer tire class. Otherwise it would be easier to spec a treadware rating and let folks decide how to spend real world dollars on the brand they want.

mazdeuce - Seth said:

For what it's worth, I love the idea of a group of people running fairly simple cars on non-race tires enough that I'm moving forward on building that community, but I don't think it should be the special class. The special class should be fun and open and explainable in one to two words. The three classes so far have been luxury cars, trucks, wagons. If it takes more than two words to define the class then it's immediately too serious. T-tops, Radwood cars, body kits, Landau tops, AWD. Those are all things that don't need to be explained but can be interpreted creatively. 

I couldn't agree more. For a special class to make sense, it should be easily identifiable, even easier to explain, allow freedom to interpret, and ideally leave enough room for someone to go crazy and build something out of left field if they choose. All previous special classes fit these criteria (you forgot minivans).

My vote is for an AWD class. It's simple to explain and identify and allows for anything from a low effort factory AWD/4wd car or truck up to a multi-engined homebrewed hooptie of insanity. 

The 200tw class isn't bad, but it's not that interesting, creative, or outwardly identifible. Note that 3rd overall (2nd in autocross/dynamic) was on 200tw BFGs this year. Every generation of 200tw tires closes the performance gap to Hoosiers, so tires aren't as good of an excuse as they once were even though Hoosiers still have the advantage.

Basic low effort, non-race tire builds will always have their place at the Challenge, but I don't think they warrant a special class.

In reply to mazdeuce - Seth :

it's been interesting to see the info about which cars ran on street tires... since, from an outward perspective (i.e. not at challenge) it was almost impossible to know what tires were being run.

I realize I'm well out-of-place to help with your community efforts... but let me know if I can be of any assistance.

also, I dig how this bevels with my own thesis: "life is short, go do this thing now" approach to motorsports

Interesting discussion all over the place. My two cents and they aren't worth nothing.

Gastropod class. Good idea to bring new people in with low-tech low-cost builds. Make it a continuing class. Flat $2,000 limit including tires, brakes, everything. No Shenanigans with trades and recoup. If they want to move their car up in class future years they would have that opportunity. But eliminating all of the budget rules will make it simple for first timers. Give them a separate award, trophy, recognition, whatever. I'm sure the participants will form their own tribe Pride. 

American Muscle class. Make a single class that roughly follows scca cam rules. 200 treadwear tires. Generally street-legal cars must have a semblance of an interior. Must be front-engine, 6 or 8 cylinder, and rear drive. Full bodies. Kiss. This will hopefully bring some more people out and keep it from becoming a Miata Fest. Make it an annual classification.

n8 said:

Basic low effort, non-race tire builds will always have their place at the Challenge, but I don't think they warrant a special class.

No, but maybe recognition for someone who does best on a single set of 400+tw tires? Similar to the half price award? 

In reply to mazdeuce - Seth :

I don't have anything against a rock hard tire award, but I wouldn't personally subscribe. My personal mindset is that even in low buck racing, there's still an element of pay to play if you want to win something. 200tw tires are still pretty competitive overall and used sets aren't too hard to find. Are we approaching "everyone gets a trophy" and risking diluting the event? I understand wanting to be inclusive and bring new people in, but if you want to win something it's still going to take effort.

In reply to n8 :

My background is running old SCCA Stock classes when Hoosiers were allowed. Mid 20's with a couple of kids at home, the best I could do was a set of takeoff decent street tires and no matter what that wasn't going to cut it. Ever. It was discouraging. I can see me in half a dozen teams at the Challenge. I'd rather give people a place to play and a community to hang out with until they can or want to step up to the land of proper race tires. I believe this event should embrace proper race tires for both the autocross and drags and I'd hate for that to go away ever. 

n8 said:

In reply to mazdeuce - Seth :

I don't have anything against a rock hard tire award, but I wouldn't personally subscribe. My personal mindset is that even in low buck racing, there's still an element of pay to play if you want to win something. 200tw tires are still pretty competitive overall and used sets aren't too hard to find. Are we approaching "everyone gets a trophy" and risking diluting the event? I understand wanting to be inclusive and bring new people in, but if you want to win something it's still going to take effort.

Something like scca solo II having 683 different classes?