Speaking of S2000's

I got to looking for them the other day and realized that Z4's are being offered for nearly the same money.

I sat in an S2000 once and don't ever remember a car fitting me like a glove as much as it did, felt like I put on a tailored suit.

I generally prefer Euro to Japanese vehicles but having never driven either I wonder how they stack up.

I would think the BMW would make a better street car because it has low end torque whereas the S2000 seem to be lacking in that.

So for a fun weekend toy with the very occasional autocross thrown in, which one would you choose for the same money?

I never found the S2000 to be lacking in low end torque.

I mean... it is lacking in low end torque on paper, but Hondas are pretty good about torque-by-gearing. Quite easy to run away from traffic without ever running over 4000rpms.

I'd still choose the S2000, and i'd even prefer the earlier 2.0 over the later 2.2.

Swank Force One wrote: I never found the S2000 to be lacking in low end torque. I mean... it is lacking in low end torque on paper, but Hondas are pretty good about torque-by-gearing. Quite easy to run away from traffic without ever running over 4000rpms. I'd still choose the S2000, and i'd even prefer the earlier 2.0 over the later 2.2.

Yep, when I test drove one I didn't find it a problem at all to get around before VTAK KICKED IN YO!

Only reason I ended up with an NC Miata was the price difference on similar condition 06-07 models.

+1 to that. I'd take the later updated S2000, though. Lots of little changes made a much nicer car to drive. Everything else can be compensated with aftermarket stuff.

Swank Force One wrote: I never found the S2000 to be lacking in low end torque. I mean... it is lacking in low end torque on paper, but Hondas are pretty good about torque-by-gearing. Quite easy to run away from traffic without ever running over 4000rpms. I'd still choose the S2000, and i'd even prefer the earlier 2.0 over the later 2.2.

I drove ap1/ap2 back to back, and I went in to it thinking "ap2 changes are for p#$$ies". I was very surprised how much better I liked the ap2. Just felt more urgent, stronger. They're both awesome though

I had never really driven a sports car, but I drove Spoolpigeon's once pre-crash and OMG I fell in love. I liked the way the seating position was, everything was real close to the wheel and within easy reach for the driver. I liked the exhaust note, and the transmission is made from unicorn farts.

I've not driven a corvette/e36 M3/miata to compare but I went home smiling, that's for certain.

beans wrote: +1 to that. I'd take the later updated S2000, though. Lots of little changes made a much nicer car to drive. Everything else can be compensated with aftermarket stuff.

As a counter point I really like the AP1 for its raw feeling but finding a good one is getting harder and harder.

You can't go wrong with either s2000 honesty. I prefer the ap1 looks and edgier handling myself, but that's solely a matter of opinion.

When sort of confronted with this earlier this year (wanted a new roadster to DD, more than just weekend toy), I went S2000. Hands down easy winner.

Styling is better. They hold their value better. Most reliable sports car ever, and easy and affordable to work on. I can't speak directly to Z4, but I had an M Coupe. The attention made to engineering and fit and finish on the S2000 is clearly superior to the BMW.

The car was engineered for people like us. I have never encountered something that is as much a drivers car as this. Everything is focused around the driver and his experience piloting. All controls fall perfectly to hand and the harder you flog it, the more sense it makes. It never came with b.s. option you have to navigate through. No automatic transmissions, heated seats, open differentials (because they're "good enough"), or special packages to make it actually sporty that you have to decipher to find the car that actually has what you want.

I would have loved to get an '06+ AP2, but I found a killer deal on a pristinely cared for '03 with the most complete records I have ever seen on any vehicle.

nicksta43 wrote: I got to looking for them the other day and realized that Z4's are being offered for nearly the same money. I sat in an S2000 once and don't ever remember a car fitting me like a glove as much as it did, felt like I put on a tailored suit. I generally prefer Euro to Japanese vehicles but having never driven either I wonder how they stack up. I would think the BMW would make a better street car because it has low end torque whereas the S2000 seem to be lacking in that. So for a fun weekend toy with the very occasional autocross thrown in, which one would you choose for the same money?

If you're actually shopping, i'd offer a 3rd option in the form of my personal MSM.

the S2000 is one of the few hondas I would own. The "scene" around Honda has just too ruined me on the rest of their cars, but the S2000 transcends that like an automotive zen koan

In reply to mad_machine:

Don't worry, there are still plenty of guys that ruin s2000s lol. Just a smaller percentage compared to rest of the Honda world.

Well I'm surprised the BMW is getting no love at all. I still have a very large Bavarian bias but you all are making a very convincing argument. I was really surprised that the pricing on the two cars where virtually identical.

SFO, the Miata just doesn't do it for me. I wish I was in a position to be buying right now.

Subscribed and looking for a beater S2000 to be the next roadrace car as soon as I sell my roadrace Integra GSR. So far the best priced running beater has been $8200

I've driven both, unless you are driving long distances in it every day the s2000 is so clearly better in every way.

Driven both as well, and the S2000 just holds a special place in my heart. Don't remember ever driving a car (besides, perhaps, the Lotus Exige) that was as exhilarating. The Z4M gets credit where credit is due, as the S54 motor is absolutely fantastic (as it is in the M3), but the S2000 offered an entirely different level of enjoyment IMO. Either car is awesome...but for my money, the S2000 takes it every time. I am actually always on the look out for one to purchase as well...seems like a good track oriented stablemate to my daily WRX :)

nicksta43 wrote: Well I'm surprised the BMW is getting no love at all.

It's not that the BMW is a bad car that is undeserving of love. It is a very good car. It's that the S2000 is just that incredible. It was made precisely with people like us in mind.

mad_machine wrote: the S2000 is one of the few hondas I would own. The "scene" around Honda has just too ruined me on the rest of their cars, but the S2000 transcends that like an automotive zen koan

Meh, I can hardly think of a marque-associated "scene" that's not full of people I'd rather not be around.

I have autocrossed an AP2 several times and it's a very impressive car. A little bit like a fast, sophisticated Miata. Also, it feels durable in a way that few sports cars do. As far as torque goes, well, are you going to drive it or plow the back 40 with it? My 350Z had much more torque, but was no where near as much fun to drive and autoX.

I would probably have owned an S2000 if Honda made a hatch version or the factory hardtop wasn't so rare.

wearymicrobe wrote:

beans wrote: +1 to that. I'd take the later updated S2000, though. Lots of little changes made a much nicer car to drive. Everything else can be compensated with aftermarket stuff.

As a counter point I really like the AP1 for its raw feeling but finding a good one is getting harder and harder.

At the risk of being the dick who spams every S2000 thread with a for sale ad, I could definitely help someone out with that search :).

I've had an AP1 for 3+ years, and I recently bought an AP2. They each have their purposes. If you're autocrossing and need to have the best of breed stock car, get an AP2; the suspension tuning, wheel sizes and low end torque mean an AP1 can't quite keep up. They also have a slight advantage in STR, but I don't know if that advantage carries over to higher classes. An AP2 can also be a more civilized DD, and is less likely to put you backwards into a tire wall if you track it. Otherwise, I say go for the AP1. They have hit bottom on pricing and will IMO hold value much better in the coming years, the engine is peakier but more exciting, the chassis is trickier to drive properly but livelier, and I think the AP1 looks better too.

For me a non-M Z4 is not anywhere near the conversation, they are a nice cruiser for 55 year old empty-nesters, with good power in the 3.0 cars, but someone who wants what the S2000 is offering is not likely to be satisfied.

S2k because working on modern BMWs is many different kinds of scary, and Chris Bangle styling is awful.

Paying for parts for modern BMWs is the most scary!

Love both the S2000 and the Z4M (tried to buy a coupe but couldn't find one).

A good alternative to either that might not occur to anyone is the car I finally did buy, the Pontiac Solstice. Too soft in stock form (GM didn't want to scare the little old ladies of either sex) but add $2-3,000 of mods to stiffen up the suspension and add a bit of power (dead easy to crank the 260 BHP to 310-330 or so) and they make a nice competitor - not as crisp handling as the S200 but faster, and also lighter, handier and faster than the Z4.

wspohn wrote: Paying for parts for modern BMWs is the most scary! Love both the S2000 and the Z4M (tried to buy a coupe but couldn't find one). A good alternative to either that might not occur to anyone is the car I finally did buy, the Pontiac Solstice. Too soft in stock form (GM didn't want to scare the little old ladies of either sex) but add $2-3,000 of mods to stiffen up the suspension and add a bit of power (dead easy to crank the 260 BHP to 310-330 or so) and they make a nice competitor - not as crisp handling as the S200 but faster, and also lighter, handier and faster than the Z4.

I am a GM guy to the core and was all full of excitement when those came out. I seriously had a major case of want...until I sat in one it has the most cramped driving position of any car I've ever been in. I didn't even test drive it because I couldn't get into a position that I felt comfortable in. I still may try another just to see if the seat was broken in the one I was in but that one sucked.

Been looking for an AP1 track slut, but I can't seem to find one cheaper than I can turbo a miata. Still, an amazing car

calteg wrote: Been looking for an AP1 track slut, but I can't seem to find one cheaper than I can turbo a miata. Still, an amazing car

If the goal is "track slut," it'll be far more expensive to keep that turbo miata together on the track than you'd think. The AP1 is probably the cheaper bet.