aw614
Reader
10/21/20 12:53 p.m.
ultraclyde (Forum Supporter) said:
I agree, this has nothing to do with racing. Make racing free and you still won't get those kids off the street. This is just hooning, dicking around with cars, being a public nuisance. I agree this is probably safer all around than actual high speed street racing.
I think the police department doing sanctioned shows is the right path. Start hosting free burnout contests, free drifting events, you might get somewhere. Autocross? Chump races? Drag strips? those aren't interesting or cool enough, and they look boring and stupid on cell phone video.
Run a cheap-entry event with a prize. Wall off a parking lot on Saturday night and charge $10/ car. Give away a trophy to the person with the biggest crowd vote. Run a text based voting system and assign each contestant a tag to make voting easy. If you fail bad enough to damage the wall or other stuff, you have pay for it. Put up some laser lights and LEDs and stuff to make the cars look cool in photos with lots of smoke.
That is what is happening locally, Monster Transmissions opened up Leadfoot City and it looks like they made a burnout/donut pad where you can hoon around for 5 bucks. So far they seem to only have day time events and probably will need time for it to grow. Location might be an issue, it's 25 miles north of me and Im 10 miles north of Tampa. But it's a start.
Duke said:
In reply to bobzilla :
But following the rules is BORING
but we have our own members here complaining that its too expensive when that's not true.
"Too expensive" is a very individual metric. Hard for me to find a binary true/false in that.
This has become a problem in Ontario as well. A few weeks back someone decided that the H20i BS from Ocean City needed an event north of the border so a bunch of morons descended on one of our small lake side towns (Wasaga Beach H20i) and shut the place down for the weekend.
Fortunately, there is lots of video evidence posted by the perpetrators so the Police have been able to crack down on the ones organizing it.
https://www.peelpolice.ca/Modules/News/index.aspx?newsId=83b3fc43-e5cb-4864-b55d-ba7c373bef08
Unfortunately it is also leading to heavy handed legislation like this that will make ALL modifications to an exhaust system illegal in the Province.
https://www.insidehalton.com/news-story/10209138--really-really-really-loud-noisemaker-cars-are-a-problem-in-oakville-and-councillors-want-ontario-government-s-help/
Error404 said:
In reply to spacecadet (Forum Supporter) :
$5,900 annual, not counting any actual track time, is a hefty cost.
Your math is off.
a membership at MSRC runs $1200 a year before per session costs. Initiation fees are one time only.
Yearly dues and initiation fees are 100% gatekeeping country-club behavior. For $1250 at High Plains Raceway you get a full year unlimited open lapping pass, good for both motorcycle and car lapping days. Full cash price for a single lapping day is $180, no other fees.
But that discussion has absolutely nothing to do with the original news post.
In reply to newrider3 :
Damn that ain't bad. $3000 + $300 a month not including consumables isn't it!
newrider3 said:
Yearly dues and initiation fees are 100% gatekeeping country-club behavior. For $1250 at High Plains Raceway you get a full year unlimited open lapping pass, good for both motorcycle and car lapping days. Full cash price for a single lapping day is $180, no other fees.
But that discussion has absolutely nothing to do with the original news post.
OP claimed in a follow up comment on page 1 that cost of participation to go to the track was too high in DFW and was causing stuff like what was in the news post.
I very strongly disagree and I agree with others here that access to the track is not the issue at hand.
Tracks have to be sustainable, if it means that MSRC runs the way it does, that's totally cool by me. Certainly hasn't hurt the ability to get on track there with every track organization under the sun in texas.
ultraclyde (Forum Supporter) said:
"Too expensive" is a very individual metric. Hard for me to find a binary true/false in that.
It's actually not. Is it cheaper than the fines, jail time and court costs of doing stupid E36 M3? Or having your car impounded and/or crushed?
spacecadet (Forum Supporter) said:
newrider3 said:
Yearly dues and initiation fees are 100% gatekeeping country-club behavior. For $1250 at High Plains Raceway you get a full year unlimited open lapping pass, good for both motorcycle and car lapping days. Full cash price for a single lapping day is $180, no other fees.
But that discussion has absolutely nothing to do with the original news post.
OP claimed in a follow up comment on page 1 that cost of participation to go to the track was too high in DFW and was causing stuff like what was in the news post.
I very strongly disagree and I agree with others here that access to the track is not the issue at hand.
Tracks have to be sustainable, if it means that MSRC runs the way it does, that's totally cool by me. Certainly hasn't hurt the ability to get on track there with every track organization under the sun in texas.
Most High School kids still don't have the kind of money it takes to go racing on the track and I laugh at the idea that that they are going to ask their parents for $200 for a weekend at the track and another couple hundred for new tires. My old man would have laughed at me and told me to get stuffed, and he actually made pretty good money. Maybe some of the kids in Plano get that after their ski vacations, but most of the so called "street racing" arrests are taking place south of the Trinity River. These kids won't be driving all the way up to Colorado to save a few bucks on track time either. I don't see that there is anything wrong with $20 a shot drag racing nights, car shows or even police sponsored hoon days. Quite honestly, there are adults who have good jobs and own nice houses who also don't want to make the commitment that road racing requires. Some are quite happy going autocrossing and doing car shows. Maybe your wife would rather you spend $200 taking her out on a weekend than blowing it on a track day. Pissing her off could make your life miserable.
Let's face it, the people at the track don't want those kids around anyway. When our Miata group went to Kellers Drive Inn the guy who owned the place made the Miatas park in the back so we wouldn't attract the rice burner crowd in the Honda Civics. The old school hot rods and Harleys owned by the older guys always parked in the front. Maybe these kids don't want to hang out with a bunch of grumpy old farts?
bobzilla said:
ultraclyde (Forum Supporter) said:
"Too expensive" is a very individual metric. Hard for me to find a binary true/false in that.
It's actually not. Is it cheaper than the fines, jail time and court costs of doing stupid E36 M3? Or having your car impounded and/or crushed?
One is a guaranteed cost, one is a possibility. All humans are bad at accurately assessing probability, young people notoriously so. Back in the days of young and dumb, I street raced some. Never even got a ticket, much less got my car impounded, licensed pulled, etc. Every time I've been on track, I had to pay the fees. Every. Single. Time. Not saying you're wrong about the consequences being more expensive, just saying that's not an argument that will ever matter.
And my point was that everyone's finances are different. Saying something is/is-not "too expensive" is impossible as a blanket statement. There have been times in my life when the $50-$100 to do a Sunday autocross was too expensive for me even though I had a car to do it. You don't get to tell someone else what dollar amount is "too expensive" for them.
In the end though, the original problem wouldn't be solved if racing was free anyway, The affordability of racing is a completly extraneous discusion.
Everybody is talking about whether or not these doofuses can afford to go to a real track. If I owned a track and had a couple million dollars invested this wouldn't be the crowd I would be hoping to attract.
Duke
MegaDork
10/22/20 8:22 a.m.
bobzilla said:
ultraclyde (Forum Supporter) said:
"Too expensive" is a very individual metric. Hard for me to find a binary true/false in that.
It's actually not. Is it cheaper than the fines, jail time and court costs of doing stupid E36 M3? Or having your car impounded and/or crushed?
But all of those things require thinking ahead, rational consideration, and understanding that it could happen to you.
None of which are typical for the street hoonage crowd.
gearheadmb said:
Everybody is talking about whether or not these doofuses can afford to go to a real track. If I owned a track and had a couple million dollars invested this wouldn't be the crowd I would be hoping to attract.
Yeah, people who think doing donuts in traffic is a good time are probably the people who would get escorted out of a legitimate auto event.
STM317 said:
Snowdoggie said:
STM317 said:
Detroit police actually sanction weekly sideshows in specific locations so that it can be done with less public impact and more safety.
That seemed like a novel way to approach the situation to me, and could certainly be a better way to handle things for everybody involved.
This isn't a bad idea. The kids can hang out and blow off some steam and the police will be there to make sure spectators don't get run over.
Also eliminates the "running from the cops" stuff that is both the most dangerous part of all of it for the general public, and the most costly for tax payers.
Unfortunately, our Detroit police chief recently reported that the bad elements have stopped showing up to the sideshow lots and are now more often going out into the city to perform sidewhows.
The issue at hand is not related to what they do on the road after stopping traffic. It is that they are doing sometimes dangerous things to stop traffic to take over the freeway.
Also, per the Detroit police most of the sideshow arrests are for people that live outside Detroit and many are well off. They are organized by a few online clubs as well as impromptu groups. A woman crushed a couple people a few weeks ago and the car club is acting like the mob and not identifying who she is and the police think her club even helped her paint/film her car, they know who she is but just have no way to prove it from the available video.
So the reasons for doing these crimes is purely for the video and because they are breaking the law. They don't want to practice donuts unless they can do it on a public road. I think there was a city council person that thought that maybe they could just shutdown some roads on a rotating basis to allow them to do this but I think the Police chief, who is from California I think, believes that the more dangerous folks won't find that attractive.
I understand the lure of having car fun on an empty road but I totally disagree with the whole takeover crime.
Advan046 said:
STM317 said:
Snowdoggie said:
STM317 said:
Detroit police actually sanction weekly sideshows in specific locations so that it can be done with less public impact and more safety.
That seemed like a novel way to approach the situation to me, and could certainly be a better way to handle things for everybody involved.
This isn't a bad idea. The kids can hang out and blow off some steam and the police will be there to make sure spectators don't get run over.
Also eliminates the "running from the cops" stuff that is both the most dangerous part of all of it for the general public, and the most costly for tax payers.
Unfortunately, our Detroit police chief recently reported that the bad elements have stopped showing up to the sideshow lots and are now more often going out into the city to perform sidewhows.
The issue at hand is not related to what they do on the road after stopping traffic. It is that they are doing sometimes dangerous things to stop traffic to take over the freeway.
Also, per the Detroit police most of the sideshow arrests are for people that live outside Detroit and many are well off. They are organized by a few online clubs as well as impromptu groups. A woman crushed a couple people a few weeks ago and the car club is acting like the mob and not identifying who she is and the police think her club even helped her paint/film her car, they know who she is but just have no way to prove it from the available video.
So the reasons for doing these crimes is purely for the video and because they are breaking the law. They don't want to practice donuts unless they can do it on a public road. I think there was a city council person that thought that maybe they could just shutdown some roads on a rotating basis to allow them to do this but I think the Police chief, who is from California I think, believes that the more dangerous folks won't find that attractive.
I understand the lure of having car fun on an empty road but I totally disagree with the whole takeover crime.
These are the ones they should just throw the book at. Give them a safe place to play and if they still want to do it on the street, confiscate their cars and put them in a jail cell. Carrot and stick. Sometimes you need the stick. You might want to have a few detectives working to infiltrate them online as well. Back in the old days they didn't have the internet to coordinate everything. Now they do.
In reply to Snowdoggie :
Two helicopters and a task force of officers. Still they can at worst charge a misdemeanor and seize the car. They are somewhat effective as the sideshows have become less agressive with take overs. But I haven't seen any current numbers.
Snowdoggie said:
.. You might want to have a few detectives working to infiltrate them online as well. Back in the old days they didn't have the internet to coordinate everything. Now they do.
Yeah, but then, when the guy has to race to prove himself and looses, he will owe the leader a 10 second car.
aircooled said:
Snowdoggie said:
.. You might want to have a few detectives working to infiltrate them online as well. Back in the old days they didn't have the internet to coordinate everything. Now they do.
Yeah, but then, when the guy has to race to prove himself and looses, he will owe the leader a 10 second car.
I KNEW that movie was going to come up in this thread. 
In reply to Advan046 :
Some people just want to berkeley E36 M3 up for everyone else.
In reply to Snowdoggie :
Prodarwin took care of that on page 1
