"Talking Him Down" What does that mean, exactly?

AngryCorvair wrote: don't say "it's only worth xxxx". say "i've only got xxxx to spend." there's a big difference in how it's going to be received.

teh p00 said: Also, a GOOD attitude is key. "I'm willing to pay you X" is a lot more polite and respecful than "I'll GIVE you X for this piece of E36 M3." "X is really all I'm able to spend right now" is also appropriate.

patgizz wrote: if someone asks my bottom dollar on anything i have for sale i tell them a higher price than i have listed and hang up on them.

Sounds like a brilliant strategy to not sell stuff you have for sale.

suprf1y wrote:

patgizz wrote: if someone asks my bottom dollar on anything i have for sale i tell them a higher price than i have listed and hang up on them.

Sounds like a brilliant strategy to not sell stuff you have for sale.

I'm fond of asking people who want to haggle over the phone if they're willing to buy the car sight unseen and send me a money order. When they say no, I mention that it might be better to try haggling when they look at the car. I also don't talk price with lookers until I've established the fact that they have cash and are ready to buy.

btp76 wrote:

suprf1y wrote:

patgizz wrote: if someone asks my bottom dollar on anything i have for sale i tell them a higher price than i have listed and hang up on them.

Sounds like a brilliant strategy to not sell stuff you have for sale.

I'm fond of asking people who want to haggle over the phone if they're willing to buy the car sight unseen and send me a money order. When they say no, I mention that it might be better to try haggling when they look at the car. I also don't talk price with lookers until I've established the fact that they have cash and are ready to buy.

truth.

What are your thoughts when they say:

"Make an offer."

I bought my current 1987 RX-7 from a guy that said, "make me an offer." I offered him $1300 for it (rust free, needed paint, automatic) and he didn't even have to think about it. I still wonder how much less I could have got it for. It's not like there is a large pool of RX-7's in Ohio to compare with. I made a reasonable offer of what it would cost me to buy a southern shell, drive down, and tow it back.

When I bought my Rabbit it was listed at $1800. I went to the dealer and asked about the car. The guy told me it was an employees car and he was looking to get $1500 for it. I called the employee and he told me the price was $1200. When I got there he said he wanted $1000 so I didn't even need to negotiate and the price dropped by almost half. The guy also threw in an extra set of new struts, a set of aftermarket wheels and a exhaust system.

I've lost a few deals on cars that went for way less than what I offered. This really pisses me off, but I got a few deals that were pretty awesome as well, such as the $400-runs-like-a-champ RX7.

I remember I offered $1200 on an already overpriced RS Turbo Sundance, the dealer refused, but when I went back after the car was gone and asked a part-time salesman what the car had sold for he said $500.

I hate the idea of sending friends to beat down the price, but it does work.

I also don't talk price with lookers

I had to read that 3 teams before I figured out it didn't say "hookers."

A few times, I have made fair $500 offers on cars with $1200-$1500 asking prices, and been refused, only to find out later that the cars were scrapped (for $100 or less) because they couldn't sell them.

btp76 wrote:

suprf1y wrote:

patgizz wrote: if someone asks my bottom dollar on anything i have for sale i tell them a higher price than i have listed and hang up on them.

Sounds like a brilliant strategy to not sell stuff you have for sale.

I'm fond of asking people who want to haggle over the phone if they're willing to buy the car sight unseen and send me a money order. When they say no, I mention that it might be better to try haggling when they look at the car. I also don't talk price with lookers until I've established the fact that they have cash and are ready to buy.

I totally don't get this. If you want to sell something, its really in your best interest to not be difficult to get along with.

PHeller wrote: I remember I offered $1200 on an already overpriced RS Turbo Sundance, the dealer refused, but when I went back after the car was gone and asked a part-time salesman what the car had sold for he said $500. I hate the idea of sending friends to beat down the price, but it does work.

Lots are in it for a profit. They buy low and sell high. You want to buy that car BEFORE it hits the lot and gets marked up. I know a few guys with lots that cruise craigslist just like us to put cheap cars on the lot for a quick profit. If a buy-here pay-here lot has a $1500 car at $500 down, they paid $500 for it. That way even if you default its paid for.

NEVER buy from a lot/salesman. Salesmen are liars. Its their JOB to wring the last penny out of whatever POS they're selling. They will tell you it sold for $500 when they got $1500. Conversely, they will tell you it sold for $1500 when it is really $500. Why? Because they're liars. Thats what they do.

ratghia wrote: When I bought my Rabbit it was listed at $1800. I went to the dealer and asked about the car. The guy told me it was an employees car and he was looking to get $1500 for it. I called the employee and he told me the price was $1200. When I got there he said he wanted $1000 so I didn't even need to negotiate and the price dropped by almost half. The guy also threw in an extra set of new struts, a set of aftermarket wheels and a exhaust system.

The first guy you talked to was a salesman loking to pocket an extra $800. See above.

I remember once around the turn of the century, I saw a 68 Charger for sale in the local paper. My fingers had friction burns from dialing so fast. I ended up being 4-5 in a line of people going to see it.

I finally get the call to come out. I was so damn excited, but when I saw it, man o man, what a POS. I really wanted a Charger (still do) but this was way more than I could handle. I thanked the guy for his time and told him I'd call him tomorrow with an answer.

Rather than leave the dude hanging, I told him that the car was way more than I could fix, said sorry, and wished him luck.

Politeness in car deals goes both ways.

suprf1y wrote: A few times, I have made fair $500 offers on cars with $1200-$1500 asking prices, and been refused, only to find out later that the cars were scrapped (for $100 or less) because they couldn't sell them.

btp76 wrote:

suprf1y wrote:

patgizz wrote: if someone asks my bottom dollar on anything i have for sale i tell them a higher price than i have listed and hang up on them.

Sounds like a brilliant strategy to not sell stuff you have for sale.

I'm fond of asking people who want to haggle over the phone if they're willing to buy the car sight unseen and send me a money order. When they say no, I mention that it might be better to try haggling when they look at the car. I also don't talk price with lookers until I've established the fact that they have cash and are ready to buy.

I totally don't get this. If you want to sell something, its really in your best interest to not be difficult to get along with.

Yes, but haggling before you even see the car is pointless, and I can't imagine there's a seller that wouldn't be pissed off about it. I used to get this on bikes all the time, too. These are not serious buyers, just time wasters looking to get something for nothing. Not worth the time of day.

I agree with this sentiment. I don't accept offers before showing anything I'm selling, unless they're at my asking price. Or above. I wouldn't turn that down.

alex wrote ...haggling before you even see the car is pointless, and I can't imagine there's a seller that wouldn't be pissed off about it....These are not serious buyers, just time wasters looking to get something for nothing. Not worth the time of day.

Agreed. There are way too many people with too much time on their hands that like to entertain themselves by looking at cars they'll never buy.

alex wrote: Yes, but haggling before you even see the car is pointless, and I can't imagine there's a seller that wouldn't be pissed off about it. I used to get this on bikes all the time, too. These are not serious buyers, just time wasters looking to get something for nothing. Not worth the time of day. I agree with this sentiment. I don't accept offers before showing anything I'm selling, unless they're at my asking price. Or above. I wouldn't turn that down.

I have bought and sold hundreds of cars. Few sellers fairly represent their vehicles, we know this.

Unless it appears to be a genuine bargain, I will not even entertain the idea of traveling to look at something until there has been some discussion involving the asking price, and its flexibility.

I am always a serious buyer, and hate wasting my time.

I'll always ask if there is any flexibility in the price, but never talk specific numbers.

I just make a fair offer and leave it there. The real trick is to never be in a position where you must have the thing you are looking to buy. So that you are honestly ready to walk away. Very few people out there are willing to pay rediculus prices on much of anything right now, which means sellers will deal eventually or stop trying to sell it. Either way your not getting hosed. Sometimes you have to go through a few sellers before you find one that's rational.

Awesome. Should we ever meet in person, I owe you guys a beer.

Chief points as I understand them-

Don't waste time with overpriced cars.

Do NOT nitpick the car-

Don't directly discuss the car at first, discuss the owner

Use respectful phrasing of offers- "I can afford to pay X" instead of "I think the car is worth X"

Have cash in hand, and only what you're willing to pay.

When making lower offers, do so quickly and politely, then leave contact info, then just plain leave.

Make transactions as painless as possible for the buyer-I don't have a trailer to show up with, but I'll do my best.

People get attached to thier cars and want them to go to good homes, so don't let them know if you intend to strip/sell/destroy the car.

What's best practice for inspecting a car as far as the buyer/seller relationship goes?

I ask, because the last two cars I bought, I should have scrutinized the wee out of. This goes triple for a nice car I want to buy. Before dropping, say, 3 or 5K, I want the car in the air so I can inspect it, I want to go over the engine very well, possibly involving oil and compression gauges, and generally, I want to throw the seller's estimation of value out the window, because, frankly, people lie like rugs, and they usually are trying to sell a problem.

For the record, my car buying history thus far,

69 Dart, looked nice, paid 800, frame was rotten, car was unsafe, should have paid 300, which is what the guy I bought it from paid for it.

97? Neon 2dr stick- paid 1200 for a car with bad paint, turned out to have a blown headgasket. Once I fixed THAT, it turned out to have knocking rods. Sold it for 1K, fortunately I was selling during the gas crunch.

86 GTI- Like the Dart, it had BRG paint, and looked nice. Paid 800, if I remember. Car never ran, was rust rotted, put a bunch of time and effort into it and got nowhere, finally sent it to the scrapper for 300.

The big constant in all three of those crummy deals was that I simply didn't examine the car hard enough every time. Also, I'm a sucker for British Racing Green. If I'd examined the Dart properly, I'd have offered 300, or just passed, same with the Golf, and same with the Neon. They all looked okay at a glance, but I should have dug into them a bit more.

Next thing I spend money on, you best believe I'm going over it with a fine tooth comb. I don't need to browbeat a seller with every little flaw I find, but I sure as hell want to be aware of them while I deal. But what's the smartest way to go about this in the middle of a deal? It's painless for the seller if I show up with a trailer, fork over money, and disappear in 10 minutes, but it ain't so good for me.

I say if the seller wont let you have the vehicle inspected, or allow you to inspect it, then either they are hiding something or, well there is no or I guess. Same thing with a test drive, but then again you do have to show that you're not a tire kicker, or joy rider.

Lots of people will decline the inspection simply because its a hassle. Especially if its a cheap car. They figure why go through the trouble to maybe sell you the car when they can just wait for someone who will just pay and go. An independent inspection will always show something is wrong and drive down the price (this is the inspector's job after all), so a seller has no motivation to go through with it. This also goes against making the transaction as quick and painless as possible. What I do is show up in dirty clothes with a good flashlight and a pocket screwdriver (to poke at rust). Arm yourself with these and knowledge of what to look for and you'll be fine.

Never, EVER, look at a car in the dark, in the rain, or only inside the shop. You want to see that paint in sunlight not under artificial conditions or covered in water.

Oh and unless its a high dollar exotic you can forget about a compression test. Most sellers don't want their car messed with in any way, especially if it could potentially cause it to run worse if you accidentally crossthread the spark plugs or mix up the wires. If it runs poor enough to make you think it has low compression just assume that it does and walk away.

For cheap cars, bring a flashlight and a creeper if you want to inspect. If somebody wanted to get a $1200 car professionally inspected, I'd take that as a clue that they are just going to make the whole deal difficult.

For a high dollar car, I think it's fine to ask them to meet you at your mechanic's place to have an inspection done.

DILYSI Dave wrote: For cheap cars, bring a flashlight and a creeper if you want to inspect. If somebody wanted to get a $1200 car professionally inspected, I'd take that as a clue that they are just going to make the whole deal difficult. For a high dollar car, I think it's fine to ask them to meet you at your mechanic's place to have an inspection done.

Agreed. For a dirt cheap car that everyone knows there are going to be things wrong, and that's factored into the asking price already, as a seller I'd be back to the "oh, you want a new car. Those are in town at the dealership" comment. For a more expensive/newer car, then yeah, let's take it and have it inspected.

I always thought "Talk me down" meant "Don't let me buy this berkeleying piece of E36 M3..."

btp76 wrote: -All sellers are negotiable. Make them negotiate against themselves (the counter to that is don't do the same when you are the seller). In other words, say something to the effect of, "What do you have to get out of this?"

I experienced something like this just the other day. I went to look at a go kart for my kids. The guy was asking $125 for it. I thought it was a fine deal at that price, but sure would have liked to save myself $25. I was thinking to myself, "Gee, I really don't want to be that guy who just has to lowball an already low price."

So, when it was time to talk price, I simply said, "So, you're asking $125?"

And he replies, "I'm asking $125, but I'd take $100 for it."

That's when I retrieve the five (5) twenty (20) dollar bills from my pocket and say, "I'll buy it for that." (I had the other $25 in the other pocket.)

Note that I didn't make him an offer lower than his asking price. I simply brought up the subject of price, to progress the conversation that direction. At that point, he volunteered a lower price. Funny...I love it!

Clem

Spend entirely to much time online and on ALOT of local forums. That is my deal spotting technique. I'm also not very good at wheeling and dealing. I typically just give them what I'm willing to pay and wait them out. Lately my low offers have worked out as alot of people are not buying car odds and ends.

And as mentioned above.. on the buyer end, nothing is more annoying than someone requiring you to jump through hoops on something that is already priced cheaply.

For example: Motor for sale locally and one of the first interested parties mentions he just needs his machinist to check it out. He thinks that a 500 buck motor (which for this motor is a darn good price, even if it ends up just being for a rebuild/core). He's over an hour away... and just expected me to give it to him so his machinist could take it a part or something along those lines.

splitime wrote: For example: Motor for sale locally and one of the first interested parties mentions he just needs his machinist to check it out. He thinks that a 500 buck motor (which for this motor is a darn good price, even if it ends up just being for a rebuild/core). He's over an hour away... and just expected me to give it to him so his machinist could take it a part or something along those lines.

While I agree not to waste peoples time on cheap stuff, I don't agree that $500 is a good deal for a core engine. I can't think of many engines that would command that sort of core price (certainly not any I'd use anytime soon).

But yeah, taking a cheap car to a mechanic for inspection? I think I'd have the same response as several others on here (~"you want a NEW car").

To score the good deals, you need to be familiar with what you're looking at and be able to asses the risks involved and plan accordingly.

Clem