True, but with the TV coverage the way it is, any road course becomes visible. Not to mention, they could make smaller road courses (acerage, not mileage) and the stands could still work out.
I don't think they attract more fans, just different, dumber, sitcom type fans that also watch WWE and monster trucks and American Idol. Idiots, in other words. They do this on purpose, no doubt, and it, as I said, makes me mad.
And Wally, what race series is like that?
I grew up in western NC, and went to several races around that part of the world as a kid. Those were super-fun to go to. This was WAY before they put that flap on top to keep the car from flipping over, WAY before the car of tomorrow, etc. I mean 25 years ago. There were wrecks. Drivers died and/or were injured with a fair amount of regularity. Over the last 25 years, things have evolved to the current sad state of affairs. I'm all for safety, it's important. Those innovations needed to be made. Somewhere in there along with that, though, NASCAR became big money, and there is now a laundry list of sponsors who will fight tooth and nail to keep it from changing into anything other than the advertising vehicle (no pun intended) it's become. If the powers that be think people want to see a close race, lots of spin-out but not life-threatening wrecks, loads of "personality" drivers with some manufactured/ added-in controversy a la the WWF/WWE- that's what we get. I personally would rather see a great driver in a great car CLEANING THE TRACK with other teams, but nobody's asking me.
In other words, if real competition and ad revenues compete, ad revenues win- and you get the boring crap that passes for "racing" now. Every car is the same, even the drivers are starting to look alike. If I want to take a nap on Sunday afternoon, I'll go get in the bed.
tuna55 wrote: And Wally, what race series is like that?
Aside form not having any ovals Speed world challenge is one. Production based cars with safety mods and a modified production drive train. Every event is on tv and it doesn't come close to Nascars ratings.
Wally wrote:tuna55 wrote: And Wally, what race series is like that?Aside form not having any ovals Speed world challenge is one. Production based cars with safety mods and a modified production drive train. Every event is on tv and it doesn't come close to Nascars ratings.
Koni Challenge is another one that I really like. That series is also free from oval tracks, but I guess if they threw a couple in over the course of a season it wouldn't be the worst thing ever.
If you watch the video, it appears the wing is what made it flip. That would be an easy fix, just don't latch the trunk!
http://www.nascar.com/video/cup/2009/11/01/cup.tal2.high.four.nascar/index.html
pitbull113 wrote: Fill Daytona and Talledega with water and hold fishing competitions?
That's what Kyle Petty said about Darlington.
Maybe he'd be better at fishing. No one has gotten further on name alone then him. No one but Junior anyway.
While you might be able to SEE the whole track at a Nascrap track you definitely can't make heads or tails of who's winning or any of the drama except for the wrecks.
How do you tell who's in the lead or who's at the tail end on those tracks. The only way you get to learn about the "drama" is on TV which puts us right back to sports car racing where there are any number of close races going on during the race.
And anyone who thinks F1 is a processional race like Nascrap needs to get out more often.
I went to a NASCAR race at Phoenix a few years ago. I went with my wife and friend. He was there with a bunch of others and they had an RV spot. We got there and early on race day and basicly had a part in the RV spot. Food was great since one of the friends had a catering business and did the food. Anyway the crowd was amazing to see. Great for people watching and clearly big big money. At race time we went to the stands to see the race. We good seats and could see the entire 1 mile track. It was interesting for 15 minutues since it is the same track I race on, but I use the road couse with parts of the oval. Away. We stated for a couple hours and then left. I got bored and we could not even talk due to noise and the cars were just going around in a circle. Hard to tell who was even leading. So we got out before the traffic. The fun part was the party before. Since that was outside the track it would make more sense to get and RV spot and party with people then go in watch the race on TV rather that buying a ticket.
carguy123 wrote: While you might be able to SEE the whole track at a Nascrap track you definitely can't make heads or tails of who's winning or any of the drama except for the wrecks. How do you tell who's in the lead or who's at the tail end on those tracks. The only way you get to learn about the "drama" is on TV which puts us right back to sports car racing where there are any number of close races going on during the race.
Have you ever been to a Nascar race? I have never had much difficulty figuring out who was running where, though if you can't there is a giant scoreboard to tell you. I suppose they could also put the little colored lights on too like the LeMans cars.
iceracer wrote: And then you get guys like JJ who rides around in the back so he can avoid the wrecks and then takes advantage when the wrecks happen or maybe it is just being clever.
there have been many drivers that have employed that same strategy in the past.... quite often it works out just like it did this time....
I know I'm just whistling in the dark here but I wish they'd take away most of there down force .... rear wing, front air dam... mandate stiffer springs to keep the front end off the ground... give 'em back their engines... make 'em use their brakes at the end of the straight-aways .... yes they would be going 200+ on the straights but they already do that at Cal and At now.. maybe even some others
I loved it back in the day... remember Elliot coming from 2 laps down (maybe it was 3) to win... with no cautions to help him ? would love to see racing again... as it is I hardly ever watch Daytona or Talledega any more.
Wally wrote:carguy123 wrote: While you might be able to SEE the whole track at a Nascrap track you definitely can't make heads or tails of who's winning or any of the drama except for the wrecks. How do you tell who's in the lead or who's at the tail end on those tracks. The only way you get to learn about the "drama" is on TV which puts us right back to sports car racing where there are any number of close races going on during the race.Have you ever been to a Nascar race? I have never had much difficulty figuring out who was running where, though if you can't there is a giant scoreboard to tell you. I suppose they could also put the little colored lights on too like the LeMans cars.
Unfortunately I've been to several.
You can't hear the announcer, you have to pay extra to get headphones that kinda listen in on pits and sorta gives you some data and the giant scoreboard is usually behind or just plain wrong and isn't visible from all seats.
tuna55 wrote: I don't think they attract more fans, just different, dumber, sitcom type fans that also watch WWE and monster trucks and American Idol. Idiots, in other words. They do this on purpose, no doubt, and it, as I said, makes me mad. And Wally, what race series is like that?
I resent that tuna, I enjoy watching monster trucks with my boys. That's how I get my wanton destruction fix every now and again. It comes from my redneck side.
Nascar on the other hand puts me to sleep.
Anybody see Mark Martins brief interview ? He definately was not a happy camper. You could tell he was holding back his anger.
Heck I enjoy circle track racing, including stock cars. It doesn't particularly bother me that they aren't actually based on street cars, although I usually prefer those types of series. NASCAR can be fun to watch, but I would point to it as an example of why you shouldn't end your search for the best racing at the highest iteration of a particular form.
You guys still watch Nascar???????
I grew up with sportscar racing and enjoied the occasional NASCAR race on TV. Back then there was only a few that were televised. Then I moved down to TX and they (the general public) had no idea what road racing was. All they knew was "stock" car racing. So, all I am trying to say is you will like what you know. If you are lucky you wil live and learn more as you grow.
PS - real race cars turn left AND right!
plance1 wrote: You guys still watch Nascar???????
I gave up on it about the time Dale Sr. was killed. It just makes me sick now--it's morphed into a soap opera for men.
The things I say when SPEED airs NASCAR are not repeatable in this venue...
I love NASCAR!!! I live for it!! It is the best racing ever or ever will be!!!!
Toyman01 wrote:tuna55 wrote: I don't think they attract more fans, just different, dumber, sitcom type fans that also watch WWE and monster trucks and American Idol. Idiots, in other words. They do this on purpose, no doubt, and it, as I said, makes me mad. And Wally, what race series is like that?I resent that tuna, I enjoy watching monster trucks with my boys. That's how I get my wanton destruction fix every now and again. It comes from my redneck side.
No offense intended, I simply meant that Monster Trucks, like NASCAR nowadays, is clearly intended for spectators and entertainment rather than racing or competition. Which monster truck is leading the points this year? Exactly. Read this, this is where NASCAR is heading, the IHRA just leap-frogged over them. Hopefully, they'll Obama style pull everyone so hard it'll be resented and never tried again. You guys may not care about drag racing, but trust me, the following articles are worth your time.
http://www.competitionplus.com/index.php/drag-racing/news/12241-ihra-announces-major-changes-to-format
http://www.competitionplus.com/index.php/drag-racing/editorials/12289-bobby-bennett-friday-wasnt-good-for-the-ihra
http://www.competitionplus.com/index.php/drag-racing/feature-stories/12286-the-ihra-community-weighs-in-on-the-new-format
Around here if someone finds out I mess with race cars, they ask 'You do drag race or oval track?' Then I mumble something about hillclimb and AX and LeMons etcand their eyes just glaze over. 
Anyway, from what little I know of NA$CAR, the restrictor plate is supposed to be the most dangerous thing ever invented; the drivers can't get away from each other, they wind up driving in tight packs and that screws up the aeros making the cars unpredictable and unstable. That leads to these mammoth crashes. Of course, big crashes make for good TV which = more $.
I guess the best thing ALMS or SCCA could do is figure out some way to have ginormous crashes for TV as well. If they do it, I want a cut of the take. 
tuna55 wrote: I simply meant that Monster Trucks, like NASCAR nowadays, is clearly intended for spectators and entertainment rather than racing or competition.
Seems that's what happens every time the mainstream population "discovers" a motor-sport: a lot of the fun is taken out of it.
tuna55 wrote:Toyman01 wrote:No offense intended, I simply meant that Monster Trucks, like NASCAR nowadays, is clearly intended for spectators and entertainment rather than racing or competition. Which monster truck is leading the points this year? Exactly. Read this, this is where NASCAR is heading, the IHRA just leap-frogged over them. Hopefully, they'll Obama style pull everyone so hard it'll be resented and never tried again. You guys may not care about drag racing, but trust me, the following articles are worth your time. http://www.competitionplus.com/index.php/drag-racing/news/12241-ihra-announces-major-changes-to-format http://www.competitionplus.com/index.php/drag-racing/editorials/12289-bobby-bennett-friday-wasnt-good-for-the-ihra http://www.competitionplus.com/index.php/drag-racing/feature-stories/12286-the-ihra-community-weighs-in-on-the-new-formattuna55 wrote: I don't think they attract more fans, just different, dumber, sitcom type fans that also watch WWE and monster trucks and American Idol. Idiots, in other words. They do this on purpose, no doubt, and it, as I said, makes me mad. And Wally, what race series is like that?I resent that tuna, I enjoy watching monster trucks with my boys. That's how I get my wanton destruction fix every now and again. It comes from my redneck side.
Not offended in the least. I know Monster Jam isn't a motorsport. I watch it to see them break crap and I am never disappointed.
The following is a quote from the above article. It will answer all your questions about IHRA and NASCAR.
"We are making wholesale changes that will make the product both more entertaining and financially responsible at the same time"
The operative word is "product" NASCAR, IHRA and Monster Jam isn't about the racing. The promoters couldn't care less about the racing. It is all about having a sellable product. Give the customer what they want in a short period of time for the right price. The racing is secondary.
The cup should ad one more road course... The Ring. That would be some crazy E36 M3
How about not driving the cars on a 90* banking.
You guys talk about limiting downforce, but really so much of the weight on the tires comes from driving around the inside of a ring.
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