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nicksta43
nicksta43 UberDork
7/1/14 10:56 a.m.

I want to swap a diesel into a big ol' American two door from the early to mid seventies. I'm thinking a Coupe DeVille. The main goals would be massive torque, quite and have huge range. I'd like this to be the car that we take yearly trips from Texas to Ohio in. I think we should be doing it in big cushy American comfort and style while still knocking down decent MPG's.

What doner should I be looking at for engine and transmission? What are some of the problems that I may encounter? What would be a realistic budget?

tooms351
tooms351 New Reader
7/1/14 11:07 a.m.

I think its called a 4bt out of a bread truck. You'll prolly have weight and hood clearance issues, I thought about putting one in my 66 mustang....would've broke the car in half I'm sure.

slow
slow Reader
7/1/14 11:08 a.m.

+1 for 4bt.

tooms351 wrote: I think its called a 4bt out of a bread truck. You'll prolly have weight and hood clearance issues, I thought about putting one in my 66 mustang....would've broke the car in half I'm sure.
Fueled by Caffeine
Fueled by Caffeine MegaDork
7/1/14 11:11 a.m.
tooms351 wrote: You'll prolly have weight and hood clearance issuese.

In addition to it rattling your teeth out.

ebonyandivory
ebonyandivory Dork
7/1/14 11:12 a.m.

Just under 800lbs

http://www.cumminsdieselspecs.com/4bt.html

fidelity101
fidelity101 Dork
7/1/14 11:14 a.m.

6bt swap may be cheaper than 4bt and have more power.

nicksta43
nicksta43 UberDork
7/1/14 11:15 a.m.
Fueled by Caffeine wrote:
tooms351 wrote: You'll prolly have weight and hood clearance issuese.
In addition to it rattling your teeth out.

That's not what I'm looking for. These new heavy duty trucks are civilized, not rattling, loud or coal rolling. Which one is most swappable.

Kenny_McCormic
Kenny_McCormic UberDork
7/1/14 11:18 a.m.

Easiest would be a mechanically injected Detroit Diesel 6.2 or 6.5 out of a Chevy pickup, that's basically a drop in(chevy V8 mounts and bellhousing), usually run a specially calibrated 700r4(though you could have it with a stick), and they're really cheap. Downside is they don't like making much more power than stock. Reliable though, thats the military hummer engine.

Fueled by Caffeine
Fueled by Caffeine MegaDork
7/1/14 11:29 a.m.
nicksta43 wrote:
Fueled by Caffeine wrote:
tooms351 wrote: You'll prolly have weight and hood clearance issuese.
In addition to it rattling your teeth out.
That's not what I'm looking for. These new heavy duty trucks are civilized, not rattling, loud or coal rolling. Which one is most swappable.

Then you don't want a 4bt. That is a bread truck engine... Period. It will rattle out your teeth. Cummins engineers call that sucker the "shaker" for a reason.

For most swappable, check a duramax. I know nothing, but have seen them swapped into cars with little issues. They seem fairly civilized.

http://www.popularhotrodding.com/features/0906phr_1970_chevy_chevelle_turbo_diesel/

Keith Tanner
Keith Tanner GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
7/1/14 11:31 a.m.
nicksta43 wrote: That's not what I'm looking for. These new heavy duty trucks are civilized, not rattling, loud or coal rolling. Which one is most swappable.

Using the latest models is going to make life more difficult and expensive, of course.

Their engines are big. The 6.7 in my 2010 Dodge is about 1100 lbs for the engine alone. Compare the hoodline between a 1500 and a 2500 sometime - that's to clear the engine. The Duramax is probably less tall due to the V configuration and will definitely be shorter and wider. The lack of coal is due (in large part) to the particulate filters, which generate spectacular heat when they're in regen mode.

You may want to wait until some of the smaller diesels start to show up in junkyards, like the new V8 from Nissan or whatever Ram is putting in their 1500.

You'd probably be better off looking at car engines. They're pretty civilized, much smaller and easier to swap.

Junkyard_Dog
Junkyard_Dog SuperDork
7/1/14 11:32 a.m.

DURAMAX

Find a wrecked truck and buy the whole thing. Swap over whatever you need. Done.

nicksta43
nicksta43 UberDork
7/1/14 11:32 a.m.

In reply to Fueled by Caffeine:

That's more like what I'm thinking of, well not that much power but 500+/- ft lbs. and around 30 mpg's or so.

Keith Tanner
Keith Tanner GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
7/1/14 11:34 a.m.

Okay, after reading the Chevelle article now I'm starting to wonder about my old Caddy...

yamaha
yamaha UltimaDork
7/1/14 11:35 a.m.

Good thing you're in texas, because it'll cost you $Texas to get a newer "Quiet-non rattle" diesel engine......

About the most reasonable/easiest things would be a 12v cummins or 7.3L powerstroke......which are both loud, but lack super steep buy in, are reliable, don't have enough wiring to reach the moon, and get decent milage.

nicksta43
nicksta43 UberDork
7/1/14 11:43 a.m.
Keith Tanner wrote: Okay, after reading the Chevelle article now I'm starting to wonder about my old Caddy...

From that article;

(From a performance standpoint, the fundamental design of a diesel has significant advantages that gasoline engines just can't touch. Unlike a gasoline engine that relies on fuel and ignition spark for combustion, diesels operate on the principle of auto ignition. In lieu of spark plugs, the extreme cylinder pressure and heat produced by a diesel's extreme compression ratio (between 17:1 and 20:1) initiates the combustion process. This is part of the reason why diesels aren't very picky about the type of fuel you dump into them. (Banana peels anyone?) Detonation beats up bearings, pops head gaskets, and blows holes through pistons, but without ignition spark, diesels live in a world where harmful detonation doesn't exist. Combine all this with a turbocharger and the result is tremendous bottom-end torque. GM's latest 6.6L Duramax cranks out 660 lb-ft at 1,600 rpm to go along with its 365 hp. Since diesels aren't limited by octane like gasoline engines, they can handle enormous boost pressures, making them exceptional performance platforms. According to the diesel specialists at Pacific Performance Engineering (www.pacificp.com), an upgraded turbo, basic fueling upgrades, and a 4-inch downpipe on a stock Duramax will make 800 hp and 1,600 lb-ft. In addition to gloriously swollen torque curves, diesels offer far better fuel economy as well. While gasoline engines operate at a 14.7:1 air/fuel mixture, diesels are lean-burning machines that run 20:1 mixtures under normal driving and as lean as 60:1 at idle. Needless to say, the potential is there for phenomenal performance and fuel mileage.

GM's Duramax line of V-8 diesels was introduced in 2001, and is the product of a joint venture with Isuzu. Over the years, it has earned a reputation for excellent reliability and stunning power potential. The Duramax has been regularly updated with minor revisions every few years, at which time it's been re-labeled with a different designation (LB7, LLY, LBZ, LMM). Each variant is very similar and an equally capable performance platform. All 6.6L Duramax diesels feature a 4.050-inch bore, a 3.900-inch stroke, an iron block, aluminum heads, and direct common-rail injection. Their internals are forged, and compression ratios vary between 16.8- and 17.5:1. Although the camshaft is mounted inside the block, the Duramax has a forked rocker arm design that enables actuating four valves per cylinder. Like all modern turbo diesels, the Duramax operates at extremely high fuel pressures of up to 26,000 psi. The going rate for a used Duramax complete with a computer, wiring harness, and Allison transmission is about $7,000. Although some will make the argument that they technically aren't big-blocks, Mike Racke reports that the Duramax is very similar in size and weight to a Rat motor and even has the same bellhousing pattern. However you choose to label them, there's no disputing that diesels aren't just for trucks anymore.)

How much does it cost to build up a full tilt big inch Caddy motor? I'd bet more than 7K and it wouldn't get anywhere near the mpg's plus this all fit under the hood of a Chevelle so it should be no problem in a full size car.

Keith Tanner
Keith Tanner GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
7/1/14 11:47 a.m.

I'm not interested in building up a full tilt big inch Caddy motor. I'm more interested in the cost to rebuild what's in there I'm thinking a Escalade 6.0 is far more likely. But it's fun to dream.

DrBoost
DrBoost UltimaDork
7/1/14 11:52 a.m.

Like this?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RO_kjaxIDzc

fidelity101
fidelity101 Dork
7/1/14 11:54 a.m.

Basically find the most modern, best donor diesel truck that is in your budget and grab the power plant, then part/scrap the rest of the truck to recoup the money back.

bearmtnmartin
bearmtnmartin GRM+ Memberand Dork
7/1/14 12:09 p.m.

Four cylinder out of a business class truck. Very compact and easy to turn up. They do shake but the factory motor mounts take care of that. My hino did not shake. You can get the whole truck for next to nothing and even pushing a three ton truck my mileage was in the high teens. (Imperial)

Cotton
Cotton UltraDork
7/1/14 12:12 p.m.

The 6bt has been swapped into a lot of American iron....monte carlos, caddies, you name it. Search you tube for videos of them running and see if its what you're looking for.

Giant Purple Snorklewacker
Giant Purple Snorklewacker MegaDork
7/1/14 12:18 p.m.

I second the Duramax + Allison.

Get the LLY variant so you have less emissions to deal with but still get the external injectors (earlier models you have to pull the valve covers to get at them). It came with the Allison 5 speed... the 6 from the LBZ would be better for fuel economy but I'm not sure if you can mix and match like that with the ECU and harnesses.

ebonyandivory
ebonyandivory Dork
7/1/14 12:20 p.m.

I love a good Buick 455 myself...

DaveEstey
DaveEstey UberDork
7/1/14 12:25 p.m.

Ford 6.0. Nobody wants them and you can easily address their issues while it's out of the vehicle.

Streetwiseguy
Streetwiseguy UberDork
7/1/14 12:29 p.m.

I just about got dizzy from rolling my eyes reading that article. My favorite: "excellent reliability " followed by "..

Oh, shut up me. Nobody here wants to hear about your dieselhate.

Fueled by Caffeine
Fueled by Caffeine MegaDork
7/1/14 12:29 p.m.
DaveEstey wrote: Ford 6.0. Nobody wants them and you can easily address their issues while it's out of the vehicle.

this may be some sound advice. I knew some quality guys at Valeo that said once the engine was "fixed" it woudl run forever and pull like a train.

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