I've always liked the looks of the Saleen Fox Body hatchbacks and just noticed that the ones with some miles on them are actually within reach for me. It does look like Saleen did modify the suspension on at least the numbered cars quite a bit, anybody know how well they take to autocrossing and HPDE?
Yes, I know, it's probably another of my brain farts that's going nowhere, but curious and slightly beered up minds would like to know 
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Fox bodies of any ilk can be made to handle really well, but first you have to solve two major problems.
1) Fix the rear suspension. It has tons of inherent bind built in. It sucks Donkey nuts, and doesn't even make the donkey very happy. A Steeda five-link (was on my old car—loved it) or a torque arm/panhard setup from Griggs or Maximum is also an exceptional choice. Just no way around it. Gotta fix that rear.
2) As soon as you lower it, you run into crazy bump steer issues. Offset rack bushings and ball joint spacers are a great fix, and work awesome, but check your rules package.
Fix those two big things and you can start tuning it like a "real" car.
Yeah, essentially you buy a higher priced car because of the suspension stuff, yet you still have to replace it all for real track work.
Not really worth it.
Thanks JG.
1) IIRC the Saleens already have modified rear suspension, from what I've read it seems similar to the SVO suspension. Probably need to look into that further.
2) My current rules package is "whatever I'd like to build" 
. Not sure if the Saleens are already lowered but pretty much all the ones I've seen don't look like one should be lowering them any further as that would put some rather rare parts at risk.
Somebody mumbled something about the '86 achieving 0.88G on the skid pad on '86 tires so I'm thinking they were doing something right back then.
z31maniac wrote: Yeah, essentially you buy a higher priced car because of the suspension stuff, yet you still have to replace it all for real track work. Not really worth it.
That plus a bunch of unobtanium parts. Guess that really is another one of my bad ideas.
Given that they're at least somewhat collectible I don't think it's a good idea to modify them fairly heavily.
With the saleens you get there "RaceCraft" suspension, that includes up rated springs, shocks and a few braces
Not worth buying to modify as they're a collectible. You'd be better off starting with an SN95 or New Edge (better chassis, 4 wheel discs, front wheel bearings aren't contained within the rotors, 5 lugs, more room in the wheelwells, etc.).
On the other hand, a modified Fox can be a good value if it already has the major items sorted (bracing/subframe connectors, brakes, 5 lug swap).
5 lugs, 4-wheel disc brakes, more room than a Fox...
The_Jed wrote: 5 lugs, 4-wheel disc brakes, more room than a Fox...
And heavier, and automatic-only.....
The Saleen stuff is essentionally shock / springs / sways / a few braces.
For all of the parts there are better ones on the market currently.
Save your money and just get any 5.0 manual equipped Mustang as a starting point. You will get a lot more car for your money.
Driveline stuff all depends on the power level you want, the first big thing needing an upgrade is the transmission.
As far as suspension, there is mild and wild...
Mild, but really fun (pretty much my setup, but a few things added)
Koni Yellow shocks, H&R "Race" or "Super Race" springs, Poly Front bushings, Camber Plates, Subframe Connectors, Lower Rear Control arms, Panhard Bar, Big Addco front sway, and stock rear sway or change to suite your desired balance.
With a Fox, add a 5 lug swap with the 12.9" PBR cobra brake setup (from SN-95 cobra). This will require 17" wheels. (IIRC you can fender roll a fox for 17x9 with a 275/45/17)
Wilder... they have SLA front suspension conversions with a tubular front k-member. I am more a fan of the steeda 5-link, but the torque arms are extremely effective as well. (all sources say a solid rear with a "Solution" is better than the 1999+cobra IRS)
Downsides of tracking a Mustang. Consumables. Tire prices alone can get a bit staggaring.
Plus side, there are a million aftermarket solutions for any problems. Downside of that is that some are extremely poorly engineered. Research each before buying.
http://corner-carvers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=48004 Not sure if you have to be a member or not to see it, but theres a good deal on one with everything solved and ready to go.
The Saleen Mustangs just got lower, stiffer springs, good shocks and stiffer sway bars. From reading road tests done on the car going back to the mid 80's the key point mentioned was the "hard" ride of the car. Yes it went around turns faster but at the cost of jarring your kidneys the whole time. Saleen went with the philosophy of "if the suspension can't move it won't do anything bad". A good handling FOX IMO requires a conversion to coilover springs in the front with high quality struts (Bilstien or Koni) Camber plates to align the suspension, and some type of axle locating link (Panhard bar)in the rear at a minimum. There is tons of info on the net on how to set these cars up. Logging onto a Mustang site such as Corral.net or Corner Carvers will give you hours of reading on how to set up the car with various opinions thrown in as well.
I loved my Saleen while I had it and can also state that the aero package really glued you to the road between 85-145. After 145 it got twitchy. I never could get the nerve to go 154 on public streets in it. Yet somehow 145 was ok?
I also had no notice of the suspension being too hard but I was 19 when I bought that car and my monthly insurance check was twice what the car payment was.
1988 # 695 Rear axle snapped and I put it into a curb.
Mustang track car:
http://nwct.craigslist.org/cto/4367907245.html
We do happen to have a quarter mile straight at the local track, but with that car I'm likely to blow the two corners at the end of the straight 
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Could probably ask this guy:
http://grassrootsmotorsports.com/news/40000-facebook-likes-mazdaspeed-fleece-pat-wilmot/
Looks like non-members can't see the one I linked...
Engine: Professionally built (in ’02) 331 stroker with all forged internals, Holley Systmax II Intake, heads, Lunati cam. Blueprinted & balanced, 28oz external balance. Lots of other stuff – see detailed specs.
Transmission/etc: OEM T5, professionally rebuilt to HD specs Hurst shifter FRPP Aluminum Driveshaft FRPP Rear axle assembly; 3.73:1 final drive ratio, factory traction-loc differential Aluminum TA rear axle cover
Suspension: (front) Griggs GR-40 tubular k-member with generic brand tubular A-arms (Ground Pounder, I think.) Generic brand coil-over kit with Tokico Illumina adjustable dampers MM bumpsteer kit, MM c/c plates MM Strut tower brace
Suspension: (rear) EvM 3rd Link MM Road race LCA’s (rod ends) Coil-over setup made from Coleman Racing parts, 225lb springs and Bilstein dampers Panhard based on Griggs and others’ designs; self-fabricated and installed.
Brakes: FRPP M-2300-K Cobra 4 wheel disc brake conversion with upgraded front calipers; Brembo 4-piston
Wheels & Tires: Silver FRPP 17x9 Cobra R 5-spoke (R58 on all 4 corners...used to have M179s up front but they do not clear the Brembos) Michelin Pilot Sport Cup 255/40/17 rubber
Its located in Boston, but might be worth having shipped at the $8-9k asking price.
Car in question http://www.corner-carvers.com/forums/showpost.php?p=93829&postcount=33
You can swap the IRS from a New Edge Cobra onto a Fox Body. :-D
dj06482 wrote: Not worth buying to modify as they're a collectible... On the other hand, a modified Fox can be a good value if it already has the major items sorted (bracing/subframe connectors, brakes, 5 lug swap).
The Saleen cosmetic parts were sold on their own as a kit; might be able to track down a used set, or an "unofficial Saleen" put together with the real parts in someone's garage.
In reply to Apexcarver:
I know we've discussed this before; what are you doing for rear axle location in regards to the upper control arms or have you gone with something like a torque arm? I'm seeing aftermarket lower control arms (k) but I don't think you're running a panhard with both stock uppers and aftermarket lowers, right?
pres589 wrote: In reply to Apexcarver: I know we've discussed this before; what are you doing for rear axle location in regards to the upper control arms or have you gone with something like a torque arm? I'm seeing aftermarket lower control arms (k) but I don't think you're running a panhard with both stock uppers and aftermarket lowers, right?
Geometry-wise I have stock arms and no lateral locator on mine. A panhard bar is #1 on my upgrade list. However, right now my Mustang is in storage until my career progresses and money flows more freely. (I now work 3 hours away from where the car is with no local place to store it)
You can run a PHB with stock uppers no problem, there are lots of examples of people doing exactly that. Lowers are not usually used for lateral location, there are a few designs that do, but they are not parts from the better suppiers (MM / Griggs). Replacement of the uppers without geometry change (steeda 5-link, or now defunct EVM 3-link change geometry) is INADVISABLE, the only thing keeping the stock arms from binding is compliance of large rubber bushings, limiting this compliance (bushing change) induces binding which causes snap oversteer. There is enough compliance to accomidate the lateral travel induced by the PHB range of motion. (Maximum Motorsports site says much the same as well)
My car on 275 V710's could see 2+inches lateral movement with stock parts. Yes, it has a strange tail wagging sensation in slaloms, but you can drive around that. That said, you get why a PHB is way up on the to-do list. My mild list contains where I want my car to be practically under a budget. Also, I have been building with SCCA ESP in mind, so a torque arm is not practical (cannot legally tie it to subframe connectors and the floor can't take the load). Full hog / no budget, I would slap a 5-link on and be done.
That said, my car could use about $5k in upgrades to tilt at nationals level ESP and even then I dont really have faith that it could hang with the newer platforms. Remember, stock, my motor only makes 305hp crank vs the newer cars over 400hp stock. So, my (daily driver) STS Miata is tons more competitive per dollar even without considering consumables (275/45/17 R-comps are something like $1200 a set, competitive STS tires are $500 a set and last a lot longer)
Tom_Spangler wrote:The_Jed wrote: 5 lugs, 4-wheel disc brakes, more room than a Fox...And heavier, and automatic-only.....
and failure prone airbag suspension..
novaderrik wrote:Tom_Spangler wrote:and failure prone airbag suspension..The_Jed wrote: 5 lugs, 4-wheel disc brakes, more room than a Fox...And heavier, and automatic-only.....
Happiness is only a swap away!
The o.e. 22 year old air springs in my '92 are still holding air just fine.
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