The FODD. Permissive Parenting, Dually Edition

In a bout of bad judgement, I allowed my 18 year-old to get a truck.  In addition to his car.  And his other car.  And I didn't just allow it, I facilitated it. I got up at 4:30 yesterday morning to drive him and hour and a half to look at it.  Condition and price matched well enough, it ran, drove and stopped fine, the seller seemed honest, and he even offered to drive it here today.  Which he did. 

With the deal complete and the seller on his way home. the boy jumped in his new truck and.... silence.  So, it's a FODD:  Found on Driveway Dead. 

What kind of FODD is it?  It's a '91 F250 Supercab.  Dually conversion when new, per door sticker.  Diesel (non-turbo).  5-speed.  2wd.  230 K.   Just what every 18 year-old with two other cars needs. Completely dead but also probably completely original paint.  Pretty darn straight.  Completely intact XLT Lariat interior in pretty decent shape under a heavy layer of dirt, grime, and dog hair.  Original radio that works.  A/C blows cool.  Front tires are scary.  Some sketchy wiring under the dash. One pretty bad cab corner but no other visible rust.  He's the third owner. 

I have some tree removers coming tomorrow and the FODD was in the way.  So, humiliation #1 was to tow the FODD to the other side of the yard with my GMT 400 half ton.  We talked about basic starting system diagnosis.  I had him start by cleaning all the battery terminals.  Started right up.   

Extremely crappy, high-zoom stealth photo below.  Note the t-shirt.  More to come, but don't look for daily updates. 

Sketchy wiring is an old Ford truck requirement, you and your son will have hours of fun getting that sorted out.  My first guess would be the starter solenoid, then a bad connection at the battery or starter. I had an 86 F350 diesel wrecker that was a fun little truck.  

Nice. Wish I could find those around here but they've all returned to the earth.  

Nice truck!

The pic is fine, but any truly great pic of a dually will show the DRW's. 

I don't remember having enough money for 3 cars when I was 18, so props to you for teaching the kid money management correctly. Also the truck is awesome. 

Thoes things are awesome, this is the one we just put together on the cheap. He needs a FSM and some time and it will run like a dream in no time. 

Well, it's time for an update, so that must mean something went wrong. 

First, per request, more pictures:

We'll start with a future CL image:

Note the sketchy wiring under the dash.  We need to get into that soon. 

We're making slowish progress.  RF tire was 12 years old, and LF tire was 20 years old.  They're all gone now, replaced with 2 brand new and really boring Mastercraft highway tread tires. 

Reverse lights weren't working.  Now they are.  Turns out it has a back-up beeper, too.  Oh boy. 

He replaced the RF headlight assembly with a used one included with the truck.  The LF headlight assembly had been recently replaced as well.  I've heard of parking by feel when backing up, but I didn't know you could do it when pulling forward too. 

The massive oil leak, that killed a patch of grass, was mostly solved with a new drain plug and 10 quarts of new oil (that I didn't pay for!)  We're now down to typical 29 year-old truck oil leaks.  The new drain plug, which came with the truck, was oddly (considering the condition of the truck) an actual Ford part.  Stranger still was that the new oil filter that was included with the truck was an actual International part. 

After the oil change, he backed it out of the garage (because it's not allowed to live in the garage; more on that later), hit the brakes, and the pedal went to the floor.  We were going to check all the brake lines anyway - now we don't have to.  I'm REALLY glad this happened in the driveway. 

So, we pulled it back into the garage (grrrr).  Replaced all the hard and soft front brake lines this weekend.  An air cutoff wheel and grinder were involved. Of course, one of the bleeders twisted off, so he (I) replaced a caliper as well (I'm not drilling and rethreading brake parts).   

Working on it wasn't bad at all; there's lots of room and everything is pretty simple.  

Tonight he hooked up the pressure bleeder... and saw fluid leaking from one of the caliper piston seals.    So, this is what I'm looking for feedback on:  fluid leaking from a caliper piston seal is always bad, right? I haven't had this happen in 35 years of working on old nasty cars.  There's no "Oh, that's not bad, all you need to do is.." explanation, right?  Just take it back and get another one, right?

So now the truck gets to live in the garage while my semi-pampered GMT400 sits outside. The sacrifices parents make...

Our next challenge will be a diesel leak somewhere around the back of the engine.  Haven't gotten into that yet.  

The wires under the dash look like they may have been to a trailer brake controller that was removed.

Check and see if the whole valley on top of the engine is full of fuel. When that happens there's a drain hole on the rear passenger side of the engine where the fuel drains out. There's some fuel line seals that leak and the manual fuel pressure relief valve leaks. If the valley is full of fuel suck it all out and start the engine, the leaks are usually easy to find as the valley fills back up. 

In reply to Uncle David (Forum Supporter) :

Bad parts store calipers are an all too frequent occurence today. If it was Cardone brand get a different brand, they are always bad.

Nice project!  Your son may learn more from that old truck than from his entire senior year in school. 

If one brake caliper seal is leaking, good practice would be to rebuild or replace both the calipers and rear wheel cylinders, unless everything else looks like new and maybe you just got a bad caliper.  I don't think very many individuals are rebuilding calipers these days, because complete rebuilt calipers are widely available, but as noted by others, some are better than others. It is one of those times when it is good to have someone you trust at the parts house.  And it would be a good time to replace pads/shoes as well. 

That looks like a conversion by Coachmen, the RV people. After the conversion van market fell off, I recall that conversion pickups were popular for a few days.

Aaaaannnnnd we're back!   Another update and more begging for help.

The brakes are fixed and work fine. 

The truck developed a lack of power while accelerating.  Kid 1 googled the issue and concluded it's either the fuel pump (as opposed ot the injector pump), or leaking return lines (or both, or something else).  So, new fuel pump went in.  He referred to it as a lift pump, so I, having zero experience with diesels, expected to see something I hadn't seen before.  Nope.  It's just a regular mechanical fuel pump that mounts ot the side of the block like they all do.  Simple job, but getting the bolts started while pushing against the spring pressure was annoying.  It finally started after lots and lots and lots and lost of cranking (this is relevant further down) .  He drove it around and still had the loss-of-power problem.  

So he ordered a new return line kit, and received a single fuel injector.  Huh?  Returned the injector and ordered the return line kit again. It arrived Friday. He (we) spent Saturday installing the new return lines.  He (not we) cross-threaded one of the nuts that holds the hard line on the injector.  I couldn't fix it on the engine, so there was no joy Saturday night.  This morning, I connected the battery charger in anticipation of more cranking, and later we (I) pulled the injector, filed the threads and got everything back together*

The engine cranked and cranked and cranked and cranked and eventually produced a bit of smoke front the exhaust pipe, and also some smoke from the starter  We also found some leaks in the return system, so he tightened everything some more, sopped up all the fuel in the intake valley (should've done that earlier), applied the battery charger again (this right here is called foreshadowing, kids)  and made some adjustments.   

He turned the key and... nothing.  No glow plugs, no starter, and also no headlights or running lights.  But the dome light works.  Batteries seem to have a full charge (measured 12.7 volts at both batteries) but the battery charger is not working the same way it did earlier.  We went inside, disgusted. 

So, what say ye? What did we kill? I'm mostly out of ideas, but I suspect multiple corroded connections.  I think we (he) need(s) to clean all the battery connections, and all the connections at the starter, plus also clean the entire starter, which I'm pretty sure is covered in diesel and oil.  The relevant fuses look good.  We've ordered a factory shop manual (on CD, it's old), but it won't be here for a while. 

* Tangent: The threads on the top of the injector measured 16 tpi, which typically maps to 3/8" diameter (or 3/4" for fine threads), but this was more like 7/16" or even 1/2".  I searched briefly in my Machinery's Handbook for what size and standard this is, but couldn't find anything.  The whole engine is 'murican (SAE) near as I can tell. I can search more and it's probably in there, but any ideas? 

Takes a lot of battery to start one of those; and, you are filling all the fuel system again before starting...possibly even an air bubble.

Do this.

https://www.nickpisca.com/diesel/fuel-system/how-to-crack-injector-lines-and-purge-air-on-a-6-9-7-3-idi-diesel-engine/

Since its a manual you can also pull start it - that will get it going (eventually)

Actually that whole website is pretty decent - suggest taking a rip through it.  Old diesels are simple but they are different than old gassers.  

https://www.nickpisca.com/diesel/

Cool, a new rabbit hole.  Thanks!

Loss of power could be the injector pump. The 91 7.3L I had was somewhat weak in the mid range. Guy I sold it to put a reman pump in and it woke back up. 

TurnerX19 said:

In reply to Uncle David (Forum Supporter) :

Bad parts store calipers are an all too frequent occurence today. If it was Cardone brand get a different brand, they are always bad.

Cardone is on the same diet as Hennessy Honda of Woodstock

It's alive again. 

The no-crank issue was a corroded battery positive terminal.  It cranks faster now.

Kid 1 performed the fuel system bleeding procedure recommended above by 93gsxturbo, cranked it a bit, and it started up and promptly killed all the bugs in a 100 yard radius.  Then it settled down and idled fine.  He took it out and says it's much better and totally drivable but still has a bit of power loss.  

@81cpcamaro: I really didn't want to read "injector pump", but I'll add that to the list of possibilities.

My preferred theory is that the newly non-functional electric helper pump installed by the P.O. is enough of a restriction that it is causing a small power loss.  I told the boy to bypass it and see what happens.  With all the stock stuff functioning like the good Ford intended, it shouldn't need that electric pump, or so I claim. I also told him to spend some time cleaning ALL of the electrical connections related to the starting system.  We'll see if he does. It would benefit from some new battery cables too. 

In reply to Uncle David (Forum Supporter) :

Hopefully your son will listen to you more than mine.  I'm also a big believer is the KISS principle.

If Uncle David is reviving the FODD thread, there must be another problem. 

The FODD has been sitting for the past 2 months or so.  It was running worse and worse, and then wouldn't run at all.  Kid #1 reached the same conclusion as 81cpcamaro above - injector pump.  He's dealing with his first semester of college, so less time to work on it.  However, after a strategic lament to his grandfather about how the truck won't run, he suddenly found himself with some cash for a reman injector pump.  This isn't the first time the Old Man has helped a kid throw good money after bad into an old car, but I digress. 

So the new injector pump arrived Monday and went on this weekend. I did maybe 5% of the work, which is a big win for me. He got it started about an hour ago, and took it out.  All the power is back, and then some! Sweet victory!  He went back out a few minutes later to take it for a longer drive, and .....................   crank, crank, crank, crank, craaaannnnnnk, no start.   We did a quick check for fuel leaks. None found. I had him put the battery charger on it and go in for the evening.  FWIW, glow plugs are new and it now cranks fine when the batteries are charged. 

Thoughts? Help?