The pitfalls of letting car nuts work at a dealership

The "why is buying a car so unpleasant?" thread got me to thinking about why they say that car guys don't make good car salesmen. Sometimes the average car buyer's needs and what car guys want can have, well, a bit of a disconnect. Imagine what sorts of things you'd hear at a dealership if car salesmen (and the F&I department, and the rest of the place) behaved like the typical "What car?" thread on the GRM message board:

(Customer is looking for a Camry): "Are you sure you want a four cylinder with an automatic? A manual wouldn't sap nearly as much power."

(On a test drive): "The first thing you'll want to do is find this switch... it turns off the traction control."

(The F&I guy trying to sell extra money making items): "Extended warranty? It's better to keep it from breaking in the first place. We can add this Accusump and baffled oil pan so you don't starve your Camry for oil on long sweepers. That'll really protect your investment. And we can also get you a copy of the dealer service manuals and a factory scan tool for just $350."

How else might a dealership run by the spirit of a "What Car?" thread go off the rails?

All of the beater trade-ins would get turned into challenge cars.

Honestly, I think most of us would be able to sell cars much better than "regular" car salesmen. Half of them don't know what engines are in what cars, or what each option means.

Even for the average car buyer, we could probably listen to their wants and needs in a car, and find the absolute perfect car for them. Of course, they'd never listen...

Trying to sell cars to normal people sucks the life out of you.

I think the biggest problem for me, after over 30 years in the automotive service business, would be something like this: "Yeah, that BMW is nice, but you'll need to replace the cooling system every few years, and the bushings all go to mush and kinda turn them floppy and cheap. Civic? Sure, but it will rust right behind the rear wheels, and every one I've ever driven sounds like the wheel bearings are gone..." and so on. I can't even buy myself a damn car...

The biggest problem with being a car salesman vs a car guy is- 99% of the population could give two E36 M3s about anything we look for in cars. They want cup holders and comfy ass cushions, not corner clipping ability and heel toe downshifts. More than once I've been to a dealer with genuinely good salesmen, taken out their cars, and had them say- "I didn't know this car could do that". They don't get enthusiasts. They get checkbooks. Same reason the manual is dying, we can't buy cars ala carte anymore, the factory special is dead, safety features have made cars into hogs, and SUV blobs rule the roads. Enthusiasts don't run the market. SADLY, we're but a small subset. I can't count how many times I've talked to people when they're like "Yeah I wanna buy xxx car" and it's something perfectly reliable, like a Civic. I berkeleying HATE Civics. They're boring. They're soulless. I HATE THEM. I have a REALLY hard time keeping a straight face and saying "Yeah, they're a good reliable appliance" because all I want to say is "Man, they're goddamn boring. Go buy this and an AAA card." Maybe this is why I have a broken MINI in my driveway.

Woody wrote: Trying to sell cars to normal people sucks the life out of you.

This is so true, it'll turn a teetotaler into a raging alcoholic

When I worked at a Mazda dealer I was one of the few people who actually knew what skyactiv meant. You should just imagine all the customers asking the salesmen what the skyactiv technology was that they kept hearing about and how a typical salesman would just say something about good gas milage and be done.

I think I bored a few customers actually explaining it

Because Skyactiv really means "an entire system designed to get good gas mileage" to 90% of the people who ask the question.

Woody wrote: Trying to sell cars to normal people sucks the life out of you.

that is the mother berking truth.

after awhile you almost have to turn off your brain and just do this autopilot type thing. answer this question this way, respond to this with that, etc. based solely on what works, and throwing common sense in the trash.

otherwise eventually you're standing there listening to the customer talk, you're not hearing a word they say. instead all youre doing in your head is visualizing yourself punching them in the throat and locking them in their own trunk.

tr00f. I refused to get into car sales for that very reason. Well, that and the stupid hours.

I'd be too honest. "You realize your Volkswagen Routan is a Caravan riiiight?"

Then I'd be glaring into the eyes of a 20-something male saying "wait a second, did you just say you can't drive a manual transmission? What the Berk? Does your sister have a brother or what!?!!"

MadScientistMatt wrote: The "why is buying a car so unpleasant?" thread got me to thinking about why they say that car guys don't make good car salesmen.

It's long been my opinion that the best salesmen know as little as possible about what they are selling. All that matters is confidence and personability. Knowing details about the product being sold tends to cloud that.

Yes, Enthusiasts like us will see right through that BS and turn away (or just ignore the salesdroid) but we're not most people.

well, I do always appreciate a salesman that is knowledgeable about their products, and believe that the better car salesmen have that knowledge.

imagine a customer shopping an accord vs a camry. if they actually test drive both (big if I know) then the salesman that shows the customer the features that the customer wants will get the sale. both cars probably connect to the iPhone, but if the salesman of the accord knows exactly how to use it and connects the customers phone right in the showroom while the camry salesman goofs it up then has to go ask someone (or knows he will goof it up if he tries so he conveniently skips that part - or doesn't know about it at all), then the customer will likely buy the accord.

key for the salesman is to figure out WHAT is important to the customer. it would work the same on us at GRM. if a salesman figured out that I was into road-holding and knew about the suspension tweaks in the 370z vs the 350z and could tell me a little about it, I would likely buy the 370z over the STI if the salesman couldn't explain the advantages of the active center differential.

as many have posted though, the people who know about active center diffs and suspension tweaks have probably been soul-sucked right out of the showroom telling people about iPhone connections...

you should have seen how confused the salesman was when i tried to configure the most stripped down brand new Camaro i could order back in the summer of '02.. "what do you mean you don't want an automatic? why would you want to crank up windows? but you can't listen to a radio with less than 500 watts..." were all things that were said to me... we wound up configuring what would have been a nice car- V8/6 speed/3.42 posi/SLP exhaust/17" wheels/Hurst shifter/not too much more, all painted silver with the darkest interior they offered- and it came up to just under $23k, with about $5k in facotry to dealer incentives that brought it down to around $18k out the door... but i didn't have the money for the deposit, so i didn't get what would have probably been the coolest 4th gen F body ever to leave a factory... but the whole time he kept trying to get me to go look at a fully loaded 35th anniversary convertible that they had out back for "only" $35k...

I worked in car sales briefly I am not that cutthroat type of person. The F&I guy was the worst. My first sale he put the customer to "special financing " when he had a 690 credit score. which meant I got $50 and he got the commission. I will not step in a showroom to buy a new car ever.

How many of you guys have gone into a dealership knowing more than anyone else there, other than the guys turning wrenches in the shop? Every one of us has played used car salesman. All you have to remember is that they're probably going to get rid of the car in 3 years anyway. Sell the extended warranty, too. It's money in your pocket, but that Accusump and oil cooler isn't.

I guess this is sort of surprising given that i constantly take things from 'broken' to 'working', but for some reason the feeling i get when im shepherding people through dealer lots helping them recognize the lies and spot the flaws and avoid the E36 M3ty deals makes me feel more helpful than when i'm actually fixing broken cars.

When i've helped people check out cars on dealer lots, i've often felt like i've done someone a way bigger favor by stopping them from making that deal, then i ever do with any single repair to a vehicle they already own. It makes sense, in a way.

My father and I were discussing my sales abilities and how well I would do with selling cars. True, but I don't like to lie to good people and as the OP mentioned, would do just that. If you're a E36 M3head, I'll sell you a 300 and convince you it's a Veyron.

Derick Freese wrote: How many of you guys have gone into a dealership knowing more than anyone else there, other than the guys turning wrenches in the shop? Every one of us has played used car salesman. All you have to remember is that they're probably going to get rid of the car in 3 years anyway. Sell the extended warranty, too. It's money in your pocket, but that Accusump and oil cooler isn't.

E36 M3, I've gone to the Mazda dealership knowing MORE than the guys in the shop. Their mechanics tend to go to our local car meets and ask ME questions about the ms3. My car is well known around here.

In reply to mndsm: It's not good if you know more than the mechanics do about your car.

I've tagged along on two car purchases for friends.

The first was for a buddy of mine who was looking for an appliance car and knows nothing and cares nothing about cars. I went to act as the BS detector and judge the quality of a car he was buying (a Hyundai back when they first boosted the warranty period way up). He did not buy the extended warranty, the car has been flawless- he still owns it.

The second I went with a friend of my wife's when she bought a Scion when they first came out. She'd done a lot of research, but she just wanted an informed opinion along with her in case they tried to pull any crap. They did not try any- maybe they wouldn't have any way, we'll never know.

I've bought exactly one new car, that was for my wife. I did all of the legwork, gave her a pool of a few cars to choose from in our price range, let her drive them, pick the one she liked best. They were giving a good deal (it was a leftover 2011 and the 2012s were already on the lot) so I negotiated a little on the price, had them throw in some extras (locking lugs, cargo net, roadside kit, etc.) then bought it with a loan from USAA. Skipping the F&I guy was great.

My best friend and fellow enthusiast sold cars during college breifly. He quit shortly after realizing he sold more cars by talking about cup holders and other fluff than the specs that we look for. Like has been said, we are but a small small subset of the car buying public.

I remember back in the mid 80's walking into a Ford dealership and talking to the salesman about the Mustang SVO on the floor. He knew absolutely nothing about the specs for the car. The guy was totally clueless. I then went across the street to the Dodge dealer. The female saleslady knew all about the Dodge Shelby Turbo that interested me. Needless to say, I purchased the Dodge, not the Ford.

Once I stopped at a small used car lot that specialized in "performance" vehicles. Corvettes, MR-S, SHO Taurus, ect. I was greatly disappointed when I had to correct him on multiple cars.