The size of things.

Datsun310Guy said:

The cheapest new car is the Nissan Versa stick shift and I'd love to see one next to a 1970 Datsun 510.

A 510 is a foot shorter and 6" narrower.

My families first house was 1200 sq feet with two bedrooms.  Then they moved and got a 1600 sq ft house. we thought it was huge...  Now I live in a 3300 sq ft house.

Sooooooooo....  yeah?

The whole size thing was very much a driving factor in picking our latest car. New cars seem to average around 190", but we wanted something smaller/shorter and ended up with a 173" Mazda CX-30. As far as full-size trucks go, I'm keeping my F150 - for doing "truck things", though parking it sucks around here due to the small/compact parking lots.

Adrian_Thompson (Forum Supporter) said:

 vehicle size is approaching a tipping point where something has to be done.  This country will never accept government mandates for size or weight, but perhaps insurance companies car start to do something about it? 

I think marketing will have more of an effect on people's taste than regulation.

And marketing is why we are where we are. 

As Henry Ford II said back in the 60's "Small cars mean small profits" and marketing departments have spent decades and mega millions convincing the public that a family of three can't exist without a full size suburban and a super duty is absolutely necessary to pick up a few twobyfours from Lowes Depot.

In reply to Fueled by Caffeine :

Our first house was 1100 sqft. The current house is 1400 sqft. The next one will be close to 1000 and super efficient. It's going to be the retirement house and I don't want to spend a fortune heating and cooling a bunch of rooms that will seldom get used. 

DeadSkunk (Warren) said:

ConiglioRampante said:

Since we're talking about size, this is 18'11" of Detroit landyachtness.  Which reminds me, I gotta get a battery for that thing.

For all it's "hugeness", that's only 3" longer than my GMC Canyon. A lot of the perception of size with current vehicles comes from their height. Modern vehicles are needlessly tall for sales reasons. I doubt my truck is appreciably taller inside the cab than a truck from the 70s, but the floor is further from the ground. I rented an F250 from Enterprise to tow to the Challenge a few years ago. Here in Michigan, 2wd trucks are rare, so the rental was 4WD. It was so tall my five foot tall wife couldn't climb up into it. The floor was 32" above grade. My 4WD Canyon would get more use if it were closer to the ground but the 2WD variants look just as tall.

Yup.  
And that Imperial, a '63 Le Baron, weighs in at a then-massive 4,800 lbs...many vehicles today are in that neighborhood and higher.

Back in the day, these Imp's were so big and the frame/body were so stout that they were specifically banned from many demolition derbies by a sanctioning body.  Fast-forward to today, something that weighs between 4,000 to 5,000 lbs may be called a sports sedan.

As Kurt Vonnegut wrote, "so it goes."

My land yacht '66 Deville (224" long) beside an unremarkable pickup. The truck's probably 50% heavier.

But there have always been small cars and big cars. If you want a small car, get a small car. It might have packaging that's more upright than an old car because it turns out that's more space efficient and more comfortable for occupants.

If you think a modern truck is too tall, you can get lowering kits. If you think the rail sides are too high, then don't lift it and put on oversize tires. Those deep beds are more useful, I used to have a shallow bed Tundra and my Dodge 2500 is a lot more useful. The stock 90's F250 my in-laws own has bed sides that are just as far off the ground if memory serves.

The classic era American cars were rather like the dinosaurs - they were impressive and stately but I wouldn't want to own one.

A friend owned a 4th gen Lincoln Continental - the one with the doors that opened opposite ways, from the centre post. It was a 1961 and was already smaller than the 3rd gen by 15" (at 213") and weighed 5100 lbs.   A true land yacht.

In comparison the larger British stuff was almost tiny. I drove an Jaguar Mk IX for years - it was considered among the largest British cars but it weighed  3875 lbs. and was only 196" long, a relative midget.

In reply to wspohn :

'91 Bentley, 207" and 5400 pounds. I still look up at most modern vehicles.

She's not fat, she's stately. 

In reply to Keith Tanner :

I'm all for everyone driving what they want, but my problem is there aren't many small car choices, especially if you want any sportiness or a stick shift. That's why I'm still driving a 20 year old MINI and a 24 year old Miata. They'll be dinosaurs one day soon, just like the land yacht convertibles of my youth........I need to move to Europe where there are still lots of small choices.

In reply to DeadSkunk (Warren) :

I think your problem is the overall dearth of stick shift options. Although both MINI and Mazda will still sell you sporty, stick shift versions of your current cars, so you've got at least another 20 years before you have a problem :)

Adrian_Thompson (Forum Supporter) said:

1. Height, mainly full size trucks and SUV's.  It's nuts, when 7-8-9 year old kids are completely invisible to the driver even when they are not directly in front of the vehicle.
2. Weigh, and funnily enough one of the biggest offenders here is electric vehicles.  No, I'm not anti electric, they offer massive benefits in many ways, but when things like the electric Hummer have a battery pack that weighs more than a turn of the century hatchback, that's a serious problem from safety and resources.

100%. We have seen a large increase in pedestrain and cyclist deaths over the past few years and I can't help but think vehicle size massively plays into this.

In reply to Keith Tanner :

LOL. You are right. At 71 years old any new cars will likely be my last. I regularly search southern markets for a replacement R53 MINI and then I'd go buy a new ND or ND-RF and enjoy my remaining years.

buzzboy said:

We're all so differing of opinion, because I really enjoy driving big vehicles. Put me in a 35000lbs firetruck and I am a happy camper. Hustling an SUV through twisty roads? Perfect.

This. 

- You can be angry and drive a subcompact if that's what makes you err.....happy. 

- You can be happy and drive a big pickemup truck. 

- I don't get why people feel like they need to make others conform to their lifestyle. 

I drive an S2000 some days. Love it. I drive a big ass F-150 or Sequoia on other days and love it. The latter are great vehicles for towing, family vacations, taking the kids to and from wherever they need to go, trips to home depot, taking the kayaks to the ocean on a daily basis, etc. I could parallel park my Sequoia better than I could my 10th gen Civic Si when I lived in LA. 

And yea everything has gotten huge. From people to vehicles to homes. Airplane seats are conversely getting smaller, as is stadium seating in most professional sports venues, and bottom line profits are the driving force. 

Also as far as interior volume increasing in newer cars, I'll have to disagree in the terms of how they feel. I'm not sure if it's design ergonomics or what but most new cars feel cramped compared to older generations. High beltlines, massive center consoles, and low sweeping rooflines make most modern vehicles (sans trucks and vans) feel cramped. A buddy of mine just bought a 95 Buick Century, 63k miles, 1-owner car. It's so plush and roomy in there yet a new Civic is huge in comparison on exterior dimensions. 

In reply to DirtyBird222 :

I have four cars here that I have actually measured interior width....2003 MINI,1999 Miata, 1972 Corolla and my wife's 2006 Scion xB. The old Corolla is actually the widest of my cars, but the xB is 3 inches wider inside. Along the same vein, the xB has more leg and headroom, front and rear, than my Canyon crew cab. the truck seats feel narrower and it has a large console. Also, I think a lot of our belief that vehicles are bigger is just perception, driven by the increase in numbers of large vehicles. A 99 Chev truck isn't all that much smaller than a 2023, but there are far more of them at the grocery store these days. There are also a lot more 2500 trucks in the general population than 25 years ago. We had a couple of Taurus wagons when the kids were little, today that would be an SUV that is much bigger on the outside with comparable interior room. I'll just keep driving my Miata and keep my head on a swivel.

93EXCivic said:

Adrian_Thompson (Forum Supporter) said:

1. Height, mainly full size trucks and SUV's.  It's nuts, when 7-8-9 year old kids are completely invisible to the driver even when they are not directly in front of the vehicle.
2. Weigh, and funnily enough one of the biggest offenders here is electric vehicles.  No, I'm not anti electric, they offer massive benefits in many ways, but when things like the electric Hummer have a battery pack that weighs more than a turn of the century hatchback, that's a serious problem from safety and resources.

100%. We have seen a large increase in pedestrain and cyclist deaths over the past few years and I can't help but think vehicle size massively plays into this.

I can only speak locally but around here 75% of pedestrian fatalities are the pedestrians fault.

Everyday I watch people get off the bus (100ft from a crosswalk) and walk directly into traffic. They also dart across busy 6 lane roads at night wearing dark clothing.

With the increased enforcement of motorists; pedestrians no appear to think they are invincible.....even when they do use a crosswalk they cross against the light.

Definitely a topic relevant to our household since Tom brought home the Lightning. That thing is MASSIVE. It makes my Clarity, a large modern sedan, look puny by comparison. When it's parked in the driveway you can't even see the garage door behind it.

With vehicles like that on the road, it's no wonder that I have to worry so much when I drive the MR2 or when I was driving the Porsche home - people simply aren't looking that low to the ground anymore when they're scanning for other cars.

Tom1200 said:

93EXCivic said:

Adrian_Thompson (Forum Supporter) said:

1. Height, mainly full size trucks and SUV's.  It's nuts, when 7-8-9 year old kids are completely invisible to the driver even when they are not directly in front of the vehicle.
2. Weigh, and funnily enough one of the biggest offenders here is electric vehicles.  No, I'm not anti electric, they offer massive benefits in many ways, but when things like the electric Hummer have a battery pack that weighs more than a turn of the century hatchback, that's a serious problem from safety and resources.

100%. We have seen a large increase in pedestrain and cyclist deaths over the past few years and I can't help but think vehicle size massively plays into this.

I can only speak locally but around here 75% of pedestrian fatalities are the pedestrians fault.

Everyday I watch people get off the bus (100ft from a crosswalk) and walk directly into traffic. They also dart across busy 6 lane roads at night wearing dark clothing.

With the increased enforcement of motorists; pedestrians no appear to think they are invincible.....even when they do use a crosswalk they cross against the light.

QFT.

There have been 2 pedestrian fatalities within a mile of my house in the past year. Both easily avoidable by not crossing a street in dark clothes at night. Or easier yet, not walking out in front of a car. 

Some people are arguing that they like owning large vehicles.  That's fine; the problem as I see it is large vehicles pretty much dominate the market, there's not much available anymore if you want something small.

In reply to stuart in mn :

There are lots of tiny cars. Unfortunately, our legislature has decided that you aren't allowed to own them. 

Toyman! said:

Tom1200 said:

93EXCivic said:

Adrian_Thompson (Forum Supporter) said:

1. Height, mainly full size trucks and SUV's.  It's nuts, when 7-8-9 year old kids are completely invisible to the driver even when they are not directly in front of the vehicle.
2. Weigh, and funnily enough one of the biggest offenders here is electric vehicles.  No, I'm not anti electric, they offer massive benefits in many ways, but when things like the electric Hummer have a battery pack that weighs more than a turn of the century hatchback, that's a serious problem from safety and resources.

100%. We have seen a large increase in pedestrain and cyclist deaths over the past few years and I can't help but think vehicle size massively plays into this.

I can only speak locally but around here 75% of pedestrian fatalities are the pedestrians fault.

Everyday I watch people get off the bus (100ft from a crosswalk) and walk directly into traffic. They also dart across busy 6 lane roads at night wearing dark clothing.

With the increased enforcement of motorists; pedestrians no appear to think they are invincible.....even when they do use a crosswalk they cross against the light.

QFT.

There have been 2 pedestrian fatalities within a mile of my house in the past year. Both easily avoidable by not crossing a street in dark clothes at night. Or easier yet, not walking out in front of a car. 

What you two are missing here with your victim blaming is that the amount of pedestrian/cyclist to vehicle collisions is not going up but the amount of fatalities is, by 43%! and it is directly a result of the the vehicles hitting them.  

US Federal safety standards do NOT have regulations for pedestrian safety like euro NCAP does, and even if we did I am sure there would be a loophole because Truck not car.

In reply to Trent :

If a person is going to step out in front of a speeding car, they are not the victim. The poor soul that mashes them flat is the victim. My kids figured it out when they were barely old enough to walk because I busted their asses when they ran out in the street or parking lot without looking. 

Edit. Removed because of crass. 

Photo of my S60R behind a '15 Fit.

Whatever happened to downsizing?

I saw a 1971 Camaro in a parking lot surrounded by modern cars, it looked tiny.

Parked my 2000 Firebird next to a new Challenger, again dwarfed.

Truck cabs get bigger while boxes get smaller.  I dont want a 4 door truck, but thats all anyone builds unless its a fullsize work truck. Good luck finding one on the lot....