Look at it as annual cost of ownership, maybe. There's no way to do a real A-B test with an old EV and he can't buy both a new F150 and the Lightning, so take the purchase price of the truck out of the equation and look at running costs. It's about all you can do at this stage of the game. And for a work truck that gets replaced every few years, it's legit.
No charging stations between Green River and Salida on or off I-70. No gas or diesel stations either :) Some people don't believe that, and if they're lucky they run out in one of the spots with cell service.
I bet the v10 gets single digit mpg towing an enclosed trailer. 30 gallons of gas - 25 or so really usable - goes by really fast at 7mpg.
Guess what's in the F250? ;)
In reply to Keith Tanner :
That's actually only partially accurate.
The Lightning carries a steep premium up charge. The purchase price of a gas burner could certainly be compared to the purchase price of a Lighting. ESPECIALLY for a work truck that gets replaced every few years.
Just checking in because I want to see the math on how TCO for a new lightning beats a V10.
Lightning vs. a different new truck? Sure. VS old V10 truck? There is a considerable chunk of money to make up for with fuel savings.
Whatever you do, please show the math.
I think the real bargains in affordable towing for the next few years are going to be the lightly used Ecoboosts in the higher trims levels.
My Platinum was sub $20K, gets 22 MPG, has plenty of torques when you punch it, and can tow 13,500 pounds. It's a super comfy place to be for a long trip.
I would still love a Lighting, and will anxiously await hearing more about Tom's experience (even if it's not a money saver)
In reply to Tom Suddard :
It's what I'd do in your situation.
SVreX (Forum Supporter) said:
In reply to Keith Tanner :
That's actually only partially accurate.
The Lightning carries a steep premium up charge. The purchase price of a gas burner could certainly be compared to the purchase price of a Lighting. ESPECIALLY for a work truck that gets replaced every few years.
It was my understanding that the Lighting was actually pretty close to price parity compared to a gas burner of equal spec. I have not done the math myself, that's based on what others have posted on this forum. The EV will almost definitely have a lower TCO due to decreased maintenance costs, especially if they are valued highly by the secondary market.
But it's not a perfect world. This would be an interesting experiment even if it is not the perfect comparison. We can keep poking holes into why it's not a good idea, but until someone tries it we won't know what it could possibly be like.
In reply to SVreX (Forum Supporter) :
I love turbo engines as much as the next guy but I would not want an ecoboost for lots of towing.
Keith Tanner said:
the sheer amount of hassle that would happen if I ran out.
BTDT. Do not recommend. One star.
Tom Suddard said:
In reply to iansane :
No, and this doesn't work if I borrow a different truck for longer trips (where's the fun in that) I'd be towing a 350Z to VIR occasionally, and to Road Atlanta/CMP somewhat frequently.
Daytona to VIR is over 600 miles. Is it realistic to think that could be done in one day with an EV towing a car trailer? Do you normally do that trip in one day?
In reply to SVreX (Forum Supporter) :
What "steep premium up charge" is there for the Lightning? Crew cab 4wd starts at $39k. Before the $7500 tax credit. Is that more than the comparable gas? I don't think so. And no comparing used and new.
Pete. (l33t FS) said:
In reply to codrus (Forum Supporter) :
Nobody likes making a trip take longer. But that extra 40 minutes saves $70 or so. Who wouldn't like to be paid $115 an hour to rest in their truck?
Doesn't anybody ever go to the bathroom with you guys? Get Hungry? Every 2 hours or so I need to unload mine. Granted I'm an old Geezer but even young guys have to go regularly. And not just pee.
So let's be realistic about travel time. OK EV's have a different schedule. Some added time but not on every trip and the charging time won't be a complete waste of time.
There is compensation for that time. So it's not going to be a straight up evaluation. There is judgement involved.
The problem here is we're judging something new by a standard based on old knowledge
Sort of like comparing the Car against horses. Initially cars were toys for the rich. But Henry Ford came along and made a fortune selling cars cheap. Cheaper than anyone else.
So is Tesla going to do that? Or have someone else win that prize? And when will it happen?
Then there is the day to day living with it. For example 95% of the time the standard range will be just fine. A few times a year I'll need to go on long trips. So saving that much money day to day is worth more than just one or two trips.
Neighbors with EV's tell me the annual cost per mile is a tiny fraction of buying gas. Numbers vary a lot but then so is the way each family use their vehicle.
When I was selling and traveling 2-300 miles a day an EV would have saved me thousands of dollars a year in-gas costs. Our electric costs are still lower than most of the country. So what about parts of the country were electricity isn't such a bargain. On the other hand gasoline costs fluctuate seriously. Sometimes the increase is based on a country needing more revenue. Or a international oil company. Or the state? Federal government? Maybe the local gas station? Remember when Gasoline was over $4.00 a gallon. Now it's over $6.00 in parts of California now. Living in Arkansas who cares what gas in California costs. Heck, check each states taxes on gasoline.
In reply to Keith Tanner :
That's not accurate.
Similar trims are not the same price, and the longer range battery (which also offers the Pro Charger and all its yummy capabilities) adds $7-10,000 on top.
There will not be any Lightnings sold for $40K. The advertised $39,764 entry price point is for a stripper work truck model, and excludes destination charges. That will be for a 230 mile range. The extended range battery will NOT be available to the general public. You'll have to step up to a higher trim level. A base model gas burner work truck starts at $29K.
The XLT Lightning will start at $52,974. A fully optioned Platinum will push over $90k.
Ford is working very hard to make sure no one can do real apples to apples price comparisons.
In reply to SVreX (Forum Supporter) :
F150 xlt crew cab gas 4wd is right around $51-52k. Your $29k stripped base model is 2 door 2 wheel drive.
Here's a little more info on the pricing (although the actual prices have not been released):
Lightning pricing
Old article, but you get the point.
In reply to dculberson :
Yes, I understand.
But that's where the XLT STARTS. There is an enormous range in optioning. That price is with the 230 mile range (which will almost always be upgraded).
In reply to dculberson :
An XLT crew cab 4WD is not a base XLT.
The F-150 XLT starts at $35,050
SVreX (Forum Supporter) said:
In reply to dculberson :
Yes, I understand.
But that's where the XLT STARTS. There is an enormous range in optioning. That price is with the 230 mile range (which will almost always be upgraded).
So what do you really need? My average daily use is less than 50 miles. My bladder needs relief every 2 hours or so. I like to eat every 4-5 hours or so. I can put that together and not waste much time per day while I'm charging. How regularly do you go on long trips? Every day? Once a week? What does your electricity cost? Gas prices?
In reply to frenchyd :
Doesn't matter what you need. I'm simply saying the Lightning will have a premium price over equivalent gas burners.
AND that Ford is working hard to make it difficult to compare prices.
An XLT crew cab 4WD is not a base XLT.
off topic, but most of this is, so...
Sadly, my insurance claims adjuster does not understand the difference 
after the 2011 crew cab 4wd eco boost XLT max tow was totaled, they used base xlt trucks as a a comparison to why they low balled us on the check they gave us. I fought it for a while, but got tired of pissin' in the wind 
now, let's get back to the EV 150 vs V10 250 comparison.
Definatly will not be a money saver, but I'd love to find out if he likes it (if he goes that route)
Are most charging stations laid out in a convenient manner to pull in, charge and exit without having to unhitch an enclosed trailer?
That would be my major point of concern. Most that I've seen are pull nose in and aren't deep enough spots to accommodate a trailer of significant length.
In reply to captdownshift (Forum Supporter) :
Huh. That's true. That might be annoying.
In reply to SVreX (Forum Supporter) :
Have you walked into a dealership lately? There are $60-80,000 trucks on the showroom floor right now.
There are also $30,000 trucks out in the back lot or on the regional office files.
If you're saying they will do everything they can to up sell you? Yeh? That's their job. But you can buy cheap if you really want to.
captdownshift (Forum Supporter) said:
Are most charging stations laid out in a convenient manner to pull in, charge and exit without having to unhitch an enclosed trailer?
That would be my major point of concern. Most that I've seen are pull nose in and aren't deep enough spots to accommodate a trailer of significant length.
It's a definite problem. One that is being addressed with newer stations, but that doesn't fix the existing ones.
