The "What do we know?" thread got me thinking about something...

Keith pointed out that we have elevated the amateur and the original thread was about being able to trust the info being posted online. So on a slight tangent, I've noticed something a lot lately on forums and Facebook groups for vehicles. 

Why do people who obviously don't know what they're talking about, offer advice as though they do? One of the more egregious ones I saw recently was someone who said:

"The best alignment for your car is 0 toe, 0 camber, and 0 caster."

Some of it is obviously trolling/satire, but there seems to be a lot of people who genuinely believe stuff like I just shared. 

Inflated sense of self?

I've given bad advice before. It felt at the time like I knew what I was talking about, but I was wrong. We've probably all done it at some point I imagine and it wasn't obvious when we were doing it. It's part of growing up or a learning process. Sometimes it's just someone genuinely feeling confident they are being helpful?

In reply to z31maniac :

Dunning-Krueger.  They are so clueless they don't know they are clueless.

This is in no way a car-specific thing.  It's life in general.  Humility does not reach some people.

This is summed up quite nicely by "The older I get, the less I know."

At 62,I am far less confident in my knowledge than I was at 20.  

Streetwiseguy said:

This is summed up quite nicely by "The older I get, the less I know."

At 62,I am far less confident in my knowledge than I was at 20.  

Yep and when giving advise or info I am starting to sound like BAT ad copy   :)

rustomatic said:

This is in no way a car-specific thing.  It's life in general.  Humility does not reach some people.

I think there is some impetus to say something, anything.

What is amusing/depressing is the way a lot of people feel their ignorance is valid just because it has the force of belief behind it, or something.

I find this entire post ironic. 

In my day, it was the guy with a "3/4 cam" in his "motor"

unfortunately, (and I am quite aware Keith is not one, so is biased) the larger majority of folks paid to pull wrenches, are as clueless as the guy the thinks "0"is the correct spec. 

Streetwiseguy said:

This is summed up quite nicely by "The older I get, the less I know."

At 62,I am far less confident in my knowledge than I was at 20.  

Accurate^ The more you know, the more you realize what you don't know.

AnthonyGS (Forum Supporter) said:

I find this entire post ironic. 

I would ask you to elucidate, but I suspect you'd find a way to turn the thread a direction that would get it locked. 

There is also layers to knowledge. Like the alignment one mentioned earlier.

The very basic general explanation you could give a normie not at all interested in cars is you want your tires pointed straight ahead and straight up and down. It's the first layer of the onion and pretty much explains and alignment.

Then you have the normal tech level, where they understand that's not exactly it and have some good ideas on how certain angles affect the vehicle

Then you have the race guys, that are dealing with more than the 3 normal angles that can write a dissertation on the various effects they have.

I've worked with techs that thought of fixing cars as just a job and they only knew enough to be good at their job, and had no desire to get to that deeper level of understanding.

I find as I get into something I start with no knowledge, then I think I've got it figured out, then if I go deeper I realize i know nothing again. I've had a bunch of people be able to tell he how to fix something but not why it fixed it. Since they know how to fix it, they think they can speak with authority, and their explanation could actually be wrong.

In the small chance I actually have knowledge on a subject I try to humbly pass it on, and not give someone crap for not knowing, we've all been there.

Streetwiseguy said:

This is summed up quite nicely by "The older I get, the less I know."

At 62,I am far less confident in my knowledge than I was at 20.  

Indeed.  My teenagers know everything. 

It takes an intelligent man to understand just how little he knows.

Streetwiseguy said:

This is summed up quite nicely by "The older I get, the less I know."

At 62,I am far less confident in my knowledge than I was at 20.  

I'm 10 years your junior, but I'm feeling the same thing. If life has taught me any lesson over and over, it's that I don't know what the hell I'm talking about. I guess that's what they call wisdom, but earning it is no fun.

In reply to z31maniac :

But if I'm racing against you 0 toe 0 caster and 0 camber is best for your car.

AnthonyGS (Forum Supporter) said:

In reply to z31maniac :

I know pointing out irony is my fault..... that too is ironic.  Again on things technical this place can go to infinite detail discussing minutia.  The minute you go sociopolitical logic, reason, critical thinking, and the ability to have open honest discussion all fly right out the window for the current thing talking points.  I honestly find it ironic, and sorta gross, but that's just me.  I'd love to hear how me pointing it out makes me the bad guy more....  So yah, let's not get into it, because you all aren't ready for it and might never be. 

 

Get off the cross, we need the wood. 

Opti said:

There is also layers to knowledge. Like the alignment one mentioned earlier.

The very basic general explanation you could give a normie not at all interested in cars is you want your tires pointed straight ahead and straight up and down. It's the first layer of the onion and pretty much explains and alignment.

Then you have the normal tech level, where they understand that's not exactly it and have some good ideas on how certain angles affect the vehicle

Then you have the race guys, that are dealing with more than the 3 normal angles that can write a dissertation on the various effects they have.

I've worked with techs that thought of fixing cars as just a job and they only knew enough to be good at their job, and had no desire to get to that deeper level of understanding.

I find as I get into something I start with no knowledge, then I think I've got it figured out, then if I go deeper I realize i know nothing again. I've had a bunch of people be able to tell he how to fix something but not why it fixed it. Since they know how to fix it, they think they can speak with authority, and their explanation could actually be wrong.

In the small chance I actually have knowledge on a subject I try to humbly pass it on, and not give someone crap for not knowing, we've all been there.

There is nothing wrong with not knowing something, we all have to learn. My point was people stating things as fact when they don't know. Going back to the alignment example, completely different post I saw someone say about a Miata "there is no way that is functional." And this wasn't a tilty wheel, stretch car.

A statement like that is completely baseless. How can you say something isn't functional without knowing ride heights, spring rates, sway bars, alignment, anything done for roll correction like R tie rods, tires used, etc. 

I didn't do a good job of making it clear that's the type of thing I was talking about from my initial post. 

AnthonyGS (Forum Supporter) said:

In reply to z31maniac :

I know pointing out irony is my fault..... that too is ironic.  Again on things technical this place can go to infinite detail discussing minutia.  The minute you go sociopolitical logic, reason, critical thinking, and the ability to have open honest discussion all fly right out the window for the current thing talking points.  I honestly find it ironic, and sorta gross, but that's just me.  I'd love to hear how me pointing it out makes me the bad guy more....  So yah, let's not get into it, because you all aren't ready for it and might never be. 

 

You can be a pretty reasonable guy, sometimes. Is there a reason you want to be a azz hat tonight?

There is a reason political discussions don't have a place in a car forum. Take the reteoric to where it's acceptable. Pleanty of them. 

In reply to Opti :

Very reasonable points. Unfortunately, none  of it was what he posted about. He posted about guys, specifically online, theat are clueless, yet say everything with authority...

z31maniac said

I didn't do a good job of making it clear that's the type of thing I was talking about from my initial post. 

With my hard head, I tend to be a bit dense. Ad to that, I don't get a ton of slang and such, and I tend to read a bit "literal"

But I thought you presented it well. I understood. 

03Panther said:

AnthonyGS (Forum Supporter) said:

In reply to z31maniac :

I know pointing out irony is my fault..... that too is ironic.  Again on things technical this place can go to infinite detail discussing minutia.  The minute you go sociopolitical logic, reason, critical thinking, and the ability to have open honest discussion all fly right out the window for the current thing talking points.  I honestly find it ironic, and sorta gross, but that's just me.  I'd love to hear how me pointing it out makes me the bad guy more....  So yah, let's not get into it, because you all aren't ready for it and might never be. 

 

You can be a pretty reasonable guy, sometimes. Is there a reason you want to be a azz hat tonight?

There is a reason political discussions don't have a place in a car forum. Take the reteoric to where it's acceptable. Pleanty of them. 

I agree with you.  So how does it make me a bad guy for pointing it out?  It's still ironic.  I didn't call you any names?  You offended by irony? 

z31maniac said:

AnthonyGS (Forum Supporter) said:

In reply to z31maniac :

I know pointing out irony is my fault..... that too is ironic.  Again on things technical this place can go to infinite detail discussing minutia.  The minute you go sociopolitical logic, reason, critical thinking, and the ability to have open honest discussion all fly right out the window for the current thing talking points.  I honestly find it ironic, and sorta gross, but that's just me.  I'd love to hear how me pointing it out makes me the bad guy more....  So yah, let's not get into it, because you all aren't ready for it and might never be. 

 

Get off the cross, we need the wood. 

What you are you building with the wood?  Sorry, I'm on a sofa, not a cross.