There's nothing wrong with my car, so it failed inspection

Nashco wrote:

SilverFleet wrote: If you guys are so worried about emissions, then I challenge you all to install full OBD II emissions systems on all of your cars, performance-minded, full race cars, or not. I don't care how old they are. Go ahead, see how fun they will be to drive after that. We can have a hypermiling competition at the $2011 Challenge.

I'm in.

Missed the OP.

One of the cars I worked on this year was an F-body with an aluminum engine of LS1-based architecture but well north of 400ci, being force fed by two small T3 turbos. Made enough power to lunge the full-interior, full power everything, road-course style suspension (BEEEEEG brakes/tires) F-bod to low 10s and very high 130s on street rubber, so extrapolate that how you will. Don't forget to add some extra pounds for the rollbar.

Anyway, point of story: It still had a pair of converters on it, still used the factory PCM, and was OBD-II compliant, which is necessary if you want to register your car in the parts of Ohio that aren't cornfield.

That's an example of a smog-legal engine that makes well over double its stock output. I have little doubt that the Subaru electronics could be massaged for similar compliance if anybody cared. Wait - I know it's possible, I've worked on one example of such. EJ257 block swapped WRX with plenty of bolt-ons, still passed the scantool test. That one only made 270-odd wheel horsepower, though.

Better than living in the police state of Virginia. Be lucky all you had to to was drive around for 100 miles. :)

I reset my ecu and clear all codes before going in for the state inspection/emissions. Never had a problem. When they see the 3" exhaust and the "clearly not stock" catalytic converter, i just tell them thats how they come from the factory. What do they know.. :)

Anyone knows the steps of the vehicle inspection? Or where to buy the vehicle inspection machine? Maybe I can do some daily inspection at home.

Michigan had inspections years ago but finally did away with them. It was always a real treat when I would take my RX7 in for inspection and the tech would be completely dumbfounded by the rotary. I would have to explain to him what it was, everybody would stand around scratching their heads and a whole lot of time would be wasted on just deciding how to hook it up. Don't miss those days.

alfadriver wrote: In reply to Twin_Cam: http://www.epa.gov/oms/emisslab/methods/uddsdds.gif is a small picture You can plot this text file up, and then try to follow it- http://www.epa.gov/oms/emisslab/methods/uddscol.txt You can get close enough, and all the monitors will run.

I've never heard that. Is that a requirement? I happen to have the readiness drive cycle for my 360 (it has aftermarket cats and trips a CEL sometimes) and it looks nothing like the EPA drive cycle. It's basically a bunch of steady driving at different rpms.

mfennell wrote:

alfadriver wrote: In reply to Twin_Cam: http://www.epa.gov/oms/emisslab/methods/uddsdds.gif is a small picture You can plot this text file up, and then try to follow it- http://www.epa.gov/oms/emisslab/methods/uddscol.txt You can get close enough, and all the monitors will run.

I've never heard that. Is that a requirement? I happen to have the readiness drive cycle for my 360 (it has aftermarket cats and trips a CEL sometimes) and it looks nothing like the EPA drive cycle. It's basically a bunch of steady driving at different rpms.

what do you mean by requirement?

the cycle I listed (I think that's the one, since I posted it 3 years ago) is the one that all of the monitors are required to cycle once during certification and testing. The steady cycle is one that probably widens the windows that the monitors are supposed to run in. But I know with 100% certainty that the car will run each monitor within that one test. Well, that plus the first 505 seconds of the test after a 10 min soak. The test I posted is the FTP74, and the FTP75 is that plus the first 505 repeated on a hot start. There's also a highway cycle, a high speed cycle, and an A/C cycle. and some of those are repeated at 20F and 50F.

What I can't recall is the number of tests that it's supposed to trigger a fault in. I do know that the trigger is anything that makes the emissions 1.5x the certified standard. Which is generally quite a bit more than most cars will put out.

KarylMatt wrote: Anyone knows the steps of the vehicle inspection? Or where to buy the vehicle inspection machine? Maybe I can do some daily inspection at home.

Holy zombie thread... this question is so 'out there' I'm suspecting 'canoe'...

But in case it's legit, it depends on the state. In PA, the inspection stations are licensed. Most have a sign hanging outside, some don't. In many other states, the entire process is run by the state.

I have no great love for the PA system, but I'll say again that developing a relationship with a private garage will pay for itself in situations like this. The laws change as well. I was talking to a tuner friend who also has an inspection license for his shop. He said as long as my E30 isn't throwing a CEL, then it doesn't need a dyno test. It's not, so I know where the car is going in a week or two.

In reply to Ian F:

Canoe, man the topsails and fire a broadside at 'em!!!!

In reply to yamaha:

I dunno, the person who revived it has one other post, and it seems real, as well. over in a new cell phone thread.

In Michigan....... this happened.

three cylinder Geo metro engine, 10 gallons of bondo and lots of rust.

Anything can happen in Michigan.

Sell your vehicle to your significant other for one dollar. If you time it right it won't need inspected for two years. At the end of the two years when she's about to have it inspected...have her sell it back to you. After doing this a few times hopefully pa voters will wise up and get rid of that silly nonsense like we did here in Kentucky....

You need to inspect in PA whenever the car is sold. Part of the process of registering, you need to get it inspected.

And PA is getting worse. Used to be only the counties around Philly and Pittsburgh needed emissions testing, now it is spreading.

NJ is getting "better" no more safety testing, only emissions. I just took my Landrover through, passed without a problem

Yeah, the selling trick won't work. PA inspection is stupid and I hate it. It was my favorite thing about moving away from Pittsburgh.

Teh E36 M3 wrote: I have to agree with alfa- there may be a reason everyone has asthma now. http://www.boston.com/news/local/articles/2008/03/02/pediatric_asthma_linked_to_car_emissions/ http://www.bbc.co.uk/health/physical_health/conditions/exhaust_emissions.shtml http://preventdisease.com/news/articles/link_exhaust_asthma.shtml These took me 30 seconds to compile. So, yeah, it is sort of a dick move to remove the emissions devices. For my sake, I'm going to put a cat on my MG even though they didn't have them in '69. It'll be downstream of the turbo though- wouldn't want those cat bits killing it.

Everyone "Has asthma" because they prescribe an inhaler anytime you can't breathe well now. A couple of good examples are when you have a cold or are a giant fatass. Ask around and a least 1/3 o the adults you know will have an old inhaler sitting around that they got when they had a cold.

MrJoshua wrote: Everyone "Has asthma" because they prescribe an inhaler anytime you can't breathe well now. A couple of good examples are when you have a cold or are a giant fatass. Ask around and a least 1/3 o the adults you know will have an old inhaler sitting around that they got when they had a cold.

I had some sickness once and they prescribed an inhaler, and I never picked it up since it seemed silly.

MrJoshua wrote:

Teh E36 M3 wrote: I have to agree with alfa- there may be a reason everyone has asthma now. http://www.boston.com/news/local/articles/2008/03/02/pediatric_asthma_linked_to_car_emissions/ http://www.bbc.co.uk/health/physical_health/conditions/exhaust_emissions.shtml http://preventdisease.com/news/articles/link_exhaust_asthma.shtml These took me 30 seconds to compile. So, yeah, it is sort of a dick move to remove the emissions devices. For my sake, I'm going to put a cat on my MG even though they didn't have them in '69. It'll be downstream of the turbo though- wouldn't want those cat bits killing it.

Everyone "Has asthma" because they prescribe an inhaler anytime you can't breathe well now. A couple of good examples are when you have a cold or are a giant fatass. Ask around and a least 1/3 o the adults you know will have an old inhaler sitting around that they got when they had a cold.

I think there is a difference between a cold inhaler and an asthema inhaler. I know my niece is severely asthmatic

There are different types, but the inhaler prescribed for colds is the same one prescribed for 99 percent of asthmatics. the beauty of thIs inhaler (Albuterol) is it makes everyone breathe better even if you are breathing fine. Even people with more severe asthma on steroidal inhalers still have albuterol. It is known as a rescue inhaler because it works fast but doesn't last very long. Not healthy for constant use.

In reply to mad_machine:

What he is saying is that there are legitimate cases, and then an odd abundance of people who have inhalers and claim to be asthmatic even though they generally don't have a problem. Its over diagnosed and over prescribed. Hell, even after smoking for 6 years, I can still out last most of the younger kids at the basketball court......sure I'm tired, but most of them appear in shape....

SilverFleet wrote:

njansenv wrote: That explains the uppipe cat removal...but what about the others?

I wanted to go faster and get better MPG's, that's all. Sorry if I offended any "Green" people in here. Please spare me the baloney, I'm sure many of you have modified your cars' emissions equipment in the past, or will in the future, in the search to go faster I actually forgot: On my newer 2009 WRX, Subaru actually let it leave the factory with a good flowing, less restrictive exhaust system, so none of that stuff needs to happen. I'm pretty sure it even has high flow cats!

Subaru also let it leave the factory with a TERRIBLE tune where the engine pulls timing and runs VERY lean near peak boost (all to meet emissions). My tuner (well-known GRM sponsor Mach V) actually said it was "scary" and with a stock tune the engine wasn't going to be alive for extended miles.

I think they used a high-flow cat because they finagled the a/f to meet emissions without extensive catting, to the detriment of the engine's longevity.

SilverFleet wrote: MA is like that too. Did you reset any CEL's recently? That would cause the "not ready" status. Oh, and my mother's 1996 Nissan Maxima does this on its own. It also has a knock sensor code stored in the computer, and the CEL doesn't go on every time, but the registry's computer still picks it up. It's rocking the "Type R" sticker right now.

Knock sensor code will not turn on the CEL on this car. Probably 90% of 4th gen Maximas are rolling around with knock sensor codes and the driver doesn't know it.

irish44j wrote:

SilverFleet wrote:

njansenv wrote: That explains the uppipe cat removal...but what about the others?

I wanted to go faster and get better MPG's, that's all. Sorry if I offended any "Green" people in here. Please spare me the baloney, I'm sure many of you have modified your cars' emissions equipment in the past, or will in the future, in the search to go faster I actually forgot: On my newer 2009 WRX, Subaru actually let it leave the factory with a good flowing, less restrictive exhaust system, so none of that stuff needs to happen. I'm pretty sure it even has high flow cats!

Subaru also let it leave the factory with a TERRIBLE tune where the engine pulls timing and runs VERY lean near peak boost (all to meet emissions). My tuner (well-known GRM sponsor Mach V) actually said it was "scary" and with a stock tune the engine wasn't going to be alive for extended miles. I think they used a high-flow cat because they finagled the a/f to meet emissions without extensive catting, to the detriment of the engine's longevity.

Sorry, but I call major BS on the "all to meet emissions" claim of that. I'm fully aware of the rules, and we are all allowed to do things to protect the engine- so if the sutuation was truly scary, the engine can run rich to protect itself. On top of that, particularly on a car like a subaru, there are very few times during a measured test where any cars come anywhere near peak boost. Moreso at areas where tuners would actually worry about. Where you would see possible high boost areas that get measured- under 3000 rpm. Other than that, you would never get close to an area where you could not run rich AND still meet emissions (BTDT at ton of times).

OTOH, I would also suspect that a lot of modern tuners are not aware that many modern engines are capable of running stoich at full boost an not hurting themselves. Not cruiticizing them, but just pointing them out.

Twin_Cam wrote: So, how about you guys learn me pre-1975 cars and trucks?

1st lesson be prepared not to be able to stop accelerate or cruise with any sort of comfort unless you have buckets of cash.

2nd lesson. Have a fully charged cell phone available at all times and a list of people who will drop everything to come and pick your broke ass up when your car breaks down.

My first car was a 71 bought in 97. I tried to daily it and found out how much stuff like that broke back in the day. In the 60's and 70's wheel bearings were wear items. Think about that.

alfadriver wrote:

irish44j wrote:

SilverFleet wrote:

njansenv wrote: That explains the uppipe cat removal...but what about the others?

I wanted to go faster and get better MPG's, that's all. Sorry if I offended any "Green" people in here. Please spare me the baloney, I'm sure many of you have modified your cars' emissions equipment in the past, or will in the future, in the search to go faster I actually forgot: On my newer 2009 WRX, Subaru actually let it leave the factory with a good flowing, less restrictive exhaust system, so none of that stuff needs to happen. I'm pretty sure it even has high flow cats!

Subaru also let it leave the factory with a TERRIBLE tune where the engine pulls timing and runs VERY lean near peak boost (all to meet emissions). My tuner (well-known GRM sponsor Mach V) actually said it was "scary" and with a stock tune the engine wasn't going to be alive for extended miles. I think they used a high-flow cat because they finagled the a/f to meet emissions without extensive catting, to the detriment of the engine's longevity.

Sorry, but I call major BS on the "all to meet emissions" claim of that. I'm fully aware of the rules, and we are all allowed to do things to protect the engine- so if the sutuation was truly scary, the engine can run rich to protect itself. On top of that, particularly on a car like a subaru, there are very few times during a measured test where any cars come anywhere near peak boost. Moreso at areas where tuners would actually worry about. Where you would see possible high boost areas that get measured- under 3000 rpm. Other than that, you would never get close to an area where you could not run rich AND still meet emissions (BTDT at ton of times). OTOH, I would also suspect that a lot of modern tuners are not aware that many modern engines are capable of running stoich at full boost an not hurting themselves. Not cruiticizing them, but just pointing them out.

Wow, that stuff I said back in 2010... wow... I got a bit snippy!

All I know is that my 2009 WRX did have the most annoying tune ever with lots o' rev-hanging annoyance. Whether it was for "emissions purposes" or not, I hated it. Throttle response sucked, it would rev without me having my foot on the damn pedal, and the power delivery was just stupid.

Another tidbit about MA inspection that I learned last year... supposedly, the emissions test has a rolling date again. I think cars that are 15 years old and older are now emissions exempt. I brought my 3 in for an inspection up the road from my house, and they had a 1996 Maxima like my mother's that I was talking about in this thread 3 years ago that was having that very same issue with the knock sensor code stored in the computer. It was emissions exempt according to the tech because of its age. Even though it is OBDII, it didn't have to pass the test.

In reply to SilverFleet:

I was more replying to the a/f control at boost that irish posted about that tuners are complaining about. Throttle control- that's an odd subject, one that OEM's have full control over, and I'm not sure why some of the choices that were made industry wide were made.

If they were doing over-reving for emissions, IMHO, that's lazy engineering. It's not hard to tune around agressive engine speed changes. Alas, I know it happens, it's just frustrating. so....

alfadriver wrote: In reply to SilverFleet: I was more replying to the a/f control at boost that irish posted about that tuners are complaining about. Throttle control- that's an odd subject, one that OEM's have full control over, and I'm not sure why some of the choices that were made industry wide were made. If they were doing over-reving for emissions, IMHO, that's lazy engineering. It's not hard to tune around agressive engine speed changes. Alas, I know it happens, it's just frustrating. so....

I would not be surprised if they did incorporate that rev-hang because of emissions purposes. They did everything else on the car like they were half asleep, so why not? It took them 2-3 months of production to figure out that they forgot to polish the journals on crankshafts, so there's that, too.