Countingcrowbars
Countingcrowbars UltraDork
7/18/21 7:47 p.m.

Thinking about getting sphericals for my control arms after reading this article. 
https://www.google.com/amp/s/racer.com/2021/04/12/wheeling-scca-champ-guy-ankenys-xs-b-miata/amp/

I have Koni shocks, but not THAT level of Penske shocks. Also, I would only have sphericals in the control arms. Nowhere else. Is this one of those "go big or go home" items? All or nothing? Is it really that great of a game changer, or is it "it only helps until the next bushing binds"??? Thanks so much. 

Pete. (l33t FS)
Pete. (l33t FS) GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
7/18/21 7:57 p.m.

What kind of car/what kind of suspension?

 

Some kinds of rear suspension rely on bushing flexibility for the suspension to move at all.  Others used the bushings (front, rear, or both) to deliberately force a progressive spring rate into the mix, by resisting motion in both directions from ride height.  This may or may not be a good thing anymore for you.

Countingcrowbars
Countingcrowbars UltraDork
7/18/21 9:06 p.m.

In reply to Pete. (l33t FS) :

Double wishbone, front and back. And an NC mx5

Trent
Trent PowerDork
7/18/21 10:12 p.m.

Check the SCCA rulebook. It might put you into a different class

Countingcrowbars
Countingcrowbars UltraDork
7/18/21 10:14 p.m.

In reply to Trent :

Thanks. Already checked. 

Tom1200
Tom1200 SuperDork
7/18/21 10:31 p.m.

In reply to Countingcrowbars :

I always ask "what are you trying to accomplish?" 

I honestly don't think it's going to be a make a huge difference. If you know for sure you have a large amount of deflection than OK but otherwise no.

 

 

KyAllroad
KyAllroad UltimaDork
7/19/21 7:52 a.m.

My first Miata (NA), when I went to race tire, I could feel the suspension "squidging" around in a loaded up corner.  So I burned out the factory rubber bushings end went to energy poly bushing (a lot of work).  But the suspension was cured, the car went where you pointed it and felt super direct.  CSP build is like that laugh

But I followed that car with an STR prepped NC and never felt like I wanted to mess with the bushings.  Can you identify the misbehavior you're wanting to correct?

dps214
dps214 Dork
7/19/21 8:19 a.m.

I've driven sts miatas with more or less the same setup but one had poly bushings and the other had 60k mile stock rubber bushings. The only appreciable difference was that the poly bushing car rode noticably worse on the street. I'm absolutely sure that metal bushings are an improvement, but unless you're running big hoosiers or otherwise putting much much larger forces into the suspension than it was designed for (or the stock bushings are trashed) I don't think you'll see a huge difference. Also note they might be noisy, if you still street drive the car.

DeadSkunk  (Warren)
DeadSkunk (Warren) UltimaDork
7/19/21 8:51 a.m.

I changed out all the suspension bushings on my previous NB for the ILMotorsport ones from Moss ( I think) and they were stiffer by 20%. The handling was a bit crisper, as I would expect with any new bushings, and the ride was harder, not harsh, but firmer than before. Anything metal wouldn't be acceptable for me to use on the street, but might be great on an autocross course. Depends on what you think you want.

Countingcrowbars
Countingcrowbars UltraDork
7/19/21 9:36 a.m.

In reply to KyAllroad :

I'm not looking to solve any noticable problem, the article I linked said that the suspension felt more fluid with those bearings as it prevented binding. 
im just looking for Tenths here. 

Pete. (l33t FS)
Pete. (l33t FS) GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
7/19/21 9:57 a.m.

In reply to Countingcrowbars :

"Binding" is nebulous, though.  There is binding like the suspension will lock up because it cannot geometrically move and relies on component flexibility to function at all, and then there is "binding" like the bushings have resistance to motion.

I'm not saying you should not eliminate all the bushings for spherical bearings, but bear in mind that by doing so you will be altering the spring and damping rates in the suspension, because the resistance to motion adds some spring rate and suspension damping all on its own.  Miatas tend to have really small bushings for minimal flexing, but this also means they have a higher internal spring rate.  "Feels more fluid" could also just mean that they effectively reduced the wheel spring rate and damping.

This effect is also a little less controllable or tunable, and is much more subject to the age of the rubber bits, which IS a good reason to eliminate it.  It's also more nonlinear, which may or may not be a good thing.

PROPER "pillow ball" suspension bushing replacements aren't noticably harsher.  A lot of OEMs use them and have for quite some time. 

 

rustomatic
rustomatic Reader
7/19/21 10:05 a.m.

Is this a street car?  If so, spherical bearing life tends to be pretty short; dust kills them.  Secondarily, good luck finding the difference between tire flex and bushing deflection.  More power is the answer.

wspohn
wspohn SuperDork
7/19/21 10:09 a.m.

Street car - I wouldn't bother. Even with 'boots' they will wear out fairly quickly.

Race car - sure - I run large Heims in the steering arms of my race car. Small improvement in feel.

Countingcrowbars
Countingcrowbars UltraDork
7/19/21 12:52 p.m.

In reply to wspohn :

This is a good point. It is still a street car. Looks like I will dodge these. 

jimbbski
jimbbski SuperDork
7/20/21 10:35 a.m.

Swapping to spherical bearings instead of OEM rubber or aftermarket poly can net lower lap times.  I did this mod for a friend who races a '85-86 MR2 in SCCA ITB class.

This mod is legal and so I installed mono balls at the LCA mount to body on both the front and rears. We did this in steps and since he uses a data recording system the results were easy to track. He gained about 0.75 seconds per lap per each end when modified for a total lap time reduction of nearly 1.5 seconds! 

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