There is an 82 near me that is set up for GTS, but hasn't been teched since '96 (I know, eeek). Anyway, it runs fine and was driving until the salve cylinder failed (not confirmed by me). I have a soft spot for these but also a bit of a jaundiced eye.
Opinions???
Sonic
UltraDork
11/21/17 10:34 a.m.
Alfas have proven to be quite durable in Lemons racing, amazingly. They also sound fantastic
Anyone else with thoughts? What should I look for?? Thanks
Parts availability pretty good. No rust?
Do it.
Where is alfa at on this?
Due to the 20+ years that have elapsed since that car has see the track be prepared to have to totally rebuild it, including either major revisions to the roll cage or total replacement, depending on how SCCA has changed the rules for GT class cars.
It may be easier to prep the car for Prod than for GT. Or you can look into Vintage class.
In reply to z31maniac :
Rural eastern shore of Maryland.
I'd have to sell my Spec7 and tons of spares to make it work.
In reply to jimbbski :
That's what I'm thinking. It's going to take a lot to get it back up to snuff. My RX7, OTOH, needs nothing. Something to be said about that.
sergio
Reader
11/22/17 2:34 p.m.
In reply to markwemple :
Well that’s a tough choice, RX7 or GTV6. IMO race the Alfa for the sound and the uniqueness. Great handling and quick car.
docwyte
SuperDork
11/22/17 3:18 p.m.
Shocked to hear that Alfa's are reliable in racing. Kinda figured they'd be even worse than they are on the street, which is abysmal.
Wonder if you could go do some sort of Vintage racing with it.
If it hasn't been serviced in that time period, you will need to change the timing belt and water pump before driving it. They are an interference design if I remember correctly from mine, and will need changing every couple of years to be safe. Clutches can also be a bit time consuming to change, and 2nd gear will crunch, but even a rebuild will only keep the crunch away for a short while. Other than those items, they are pretty durable and make fantastic noises. Electrics are a crap shoot, but usually are nothing more than bad grounds. Most Alfa problems center on neglect and cheap parts. Maintenance schedules are not suggestions.
Sounds a lot like my Fiat from that aspect. What kind of money would be reasonable for a '82 GTV6 that has no title, no interior, except racing interior, passed tech last 21 years ago, so, needs belts, seat, etc. Also, needs tires (and only has 1 set of OZ racing), battery, clutch slave and all the other incidentals. Last ran in ITS. Has surface rust here and there but the under carriage looks decent. It does run reasonably. No noticeable noises.
docwyte said:
Shocked to hear that Alfa's are reliable in racing. Kinda figured they'd be even worse than they are on the street, which is abysmal.
One of the best LeMons car is a Milano, which is a GTV6 with two more doors.
And they are more reliable than most think.
Any help on pricing? Not finding much help on the internet. Not many for sale, and I can't find a single race car. That may be an indication that they aren't popular for racing??
I'm also having trouble finding racing parts for it.
What sort of racing parts are you looking for?
Performatek has some good stuff (Springs, torsion bars, dampers, bushings, big rear rotors) : http://www.performatek.com/alfa/alfa.htm
(Which reminds me, mind the heat in the rear brakes if you're going to track the car)
Vicks has some go fast goodies: http://www.vickauto.com/newstore/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=9_13_219&zenid=sfrgl9iqutingj4urp654n2vf1
12-valve 3-liter swaps from the 164 are pretty common/easy, 24-valve swaps from the 164q are lesser common. Eaton superchargers from the GM 3800s are another go-fast option... Not sure what rules you're stuck with.
AlfaBB.com is an excellent board for info.
As others have said, electricals and rust have been about 99.999999999999999999999999% of my problems. Having owned an FB, an FC, and a GTV6, my vote is with the GTV6. On paper the GTV6 is very similar to the FC in power/weight/balance, etc.
If you do go the GTV6 route, let me know. I have a complete 3-liter that cant seem to find its way out of colorado that you could have. I don't dare to think of the condition it must be in by now...
As for reliability, in vintage racing circles I keep hearing about how those old Bertone coupes hold up better than the BMW 2002 under track conditions. Look better and sound better, too!
Input on potential pricing please. I can not find any comps.
fanfoy
Dork
11/23/17 10:01 a.m.
When I had my Milano, the parts that gave me trouble on it were all the German parts (Bosch electrics, ZF power steering).
What sucks on those Alfa is anything rubber related (hoses, gaskets and engine/transmission mounts). They seem to age quickly.
And the rust obviously. But it's not worst then Jap metal of the time.
And they do sound glorious...
Almost irrespective of what you pay for the car, it will be the cheapest part of the project. There is nothing more expensive than a cheap race car...says the guy who dragged home a long-stored road race car and has spent many, many multiples of the purchase price so far with many more still to spend.
Ask if they have the original logbook...if not, it will probably need to be issued a new one, and a 1990s cage most likely isn’t going to pass current GCR spec if you want to run SCCA/NASA. If it does have a logbook, it may be able to be grandfathered in, although it’s worth planning on some updates for safety reasons, even if it’s legal.
All that said...there’s a lot of satisfaction to be had bringing a long forgotten race car back to the track. It’s not cheap satisfaction, but it sure is worthwhile. Just make sure you have the mental and financial fortitude at the onset, as once you’re nipples deep, the only way out is to spend your way to the end.
Best of luck!
In reply to Rotaryracer :
And that's one of the reasons I'm thinking of just sticking with my srx7. It may not be quick but all it needs is fluids, filters and the normal off season sorting for next season.
Tom1200
HalfDork
11/23/17 3:38 p.m.
I ran the Datsun in SCCA before switching to Vintage in 2010, the cage was done in 1990 and it's still SCCA legal. Somewhere around 2000 I think we had to add a diagonal that went from upper right corner of the rear hoop down to the left rear down tube on the right side. Before that there was a requirement for a horizontal bar across the rear hoop. We also added small diagonals in the corners of the front hoop (we were going to do a Tarmac rally). None of these were difficult at all. I bring this up because I do not understand why the cage in the Alfa wouldn't be legal if once ran ITS. The requirements for tubing sizes has remained the same, worst case it needs a couple of bars added to it. The cage requirements have not radically changed since 96. New belts are no big deal you can get new ones for a s little as $75. Same deal on the window net. Most SCCA cars had an Autopro kit installed I suspect this does to.
I know now little of Alfa's but I do know that you can't neglect them like you can with an old Datsun or Toyota and that's where the reliability issue seems to come from. As a race car the electrics should be less of an issue because the requirements are much less. The car runs so you can see if it has any leaks and check the drivetrain. As mentioned you'll want to do the timing belt unless it's just been done.
It should be accepted at most vintage events; I'd run it in ITS trim until you get to know it. You likely get put in some catch all class but who cares a GTV6 looks and sounds great.
This is going to come down to how much you love your Spec RX.
Price, I'd say no more than 3K not because of I think a GTV6 has no value but because it's a semi defunct race car. You may not have to replace much of anything but you'll obviously need to check the brakes, change all the fluids etc. I'd make sure it was safe, then take it to a track day and run it to see what other issues it might have. Obviously you'll want to go easy at first. You could also do the same at a local autocross.