In reply to 4cylndrfury & jstand:

You quip and jeer but on this forum, we tend NOT to bend to the norm in internet behaviors. Just seems really odd on the topic of self-driving cars gets us to the "normal" turn of events.

In reply to FlightService:

I disagree. I mean, we're on a cheap-skates motorsports forum that publishes a magazine with tips on how to be a better driver and the car better overall. It's not surprising in hte least that this topic would be heated and controversial.

It would be like going onto a gun forum and praising the newest magazine ban, or registration checks etc. Or signing into an atheist site and praising the newest church.

But at least we tend to keep the personal insults and insanity at bay. usually

In reply to Bobzilla:

Yes and no. Personally, as much as I love driving, commuting is beginning to wear on me as I age. There is a part of me that on some days wouldn't mind walking out of my house or the office, getting into my car and just saying "home" or "work" and then taking a nap until I arrive.

The solution is simple.

Think space ship.

Automated whatever, with a manual override.

I'm in both sides of the fence with this whole thing though. On the one hand, I want to see automated F1 cars breaking 300mph through s bends, and not have to worry about every idiot on Facebook and Snapchat behind the wheel. On the other, I will not and can not put my faith into a single designer or programmers hand, especially when something as bass ackwards as the federal government is deciding the rules regarding software.

Ian F wrote: In reply to Bobzilla: Yes and no. Personally, as much as I love driving, commuting is beginning to wear on me as I age. There is a part of me that on some days wouldn't mind walking out of my house or the office, getting into my car and just saying "home" or "work" and then taking a nap until I arrive.

Move closer. LOL Wife and I have had this discussion. She drives 75 miles a day. But the pay is ridiculously good and she knows it. It's the sacrifice we make. She uses the time to decompress before she gets home. It's something I used to do as well. Use that time in the car to focus on driving, or keeping smooth, or missing every pot hole.... something along those lines. By spending that 30-40 minutes doing that, the other things you were focused on and worrying about slip away.

IT's great.

4cylndrfury wrote: Any one persons odd's are 50:50...

If you choose to believe that you actually have a 50% chance of dying on any given day, which is what a "1 in 2 chance of waking up tommorow" is explicitly stating, it is your right and freedom to do so...But I can't debate with somebody who doesn't want to understand any more than I can teach somebody who doesn't want to learn.

Driven5 wrote:

4cylndrfury wrote: Any one persons odd's are 50:50...

If you choose to believe that you actually have a 50% chance of dying on any given day, which is what a "1 in 2 chance of waking up tommorow" is explicitly stating, it is your right and freedom to do so...But I can't debate with somebody who doesn't want to understand any more than I can teach somebody who doesn't want to learn.

There's nothing to debate. There is a 100% certainty that we will all die. We are not in charge of when(unless you consider suicide, but that isn't an option I personally am willing to consider). We can delude ourselves into thinking that we are, but it's just a delusion. So all we CAN do is treat each day for what it is: a treat to be alive and enjoy it. Worrying about what can kill you at any given moment isn't going to really help do that.

What about that statement is false or debatable? Do you have a magic elixir of life stuffed in your closet? Wait.... did you find Ponce De Leon's fountain of youth?

Sorry, your outrage is unmoving. - let's leave silly strawmen to guard the tomatoes. - If you can't see the irony and laughability of that I can't help you. - Oh yes, the "lifes not fair" argument. - I appreciate your attempt to walk away with a snarky mic drop - Catholicism - What has happened with our society as a whole, I'm ready for it to burn down and a new forest to regrow.

This is a way higher level of reasonable discussion than is the norm on the inter-webs I'm used to. I agree with Bobzilla that the legal/moral implications of how self driving cars are programmed is a huge issue and one that (I'll venture a guess) will require a whole bunch of lawsuits to establish legal precedence which will then drive law/policy and thus the programming. Like: It very easy for me to imagine the CEO of Uber demanding that when he is in an 'auto-piloted' car anyone but him dies first no matter what, and when that occurs, the lawsuits fire up. Or 'autopiloted' trucks- what matters? a: keeping the load upright or b: avoiding hurting people in the wee cars. Huge legal stuff for sure.

In reply to Shaun:

cute article about MIT study for when automation has to decide to kill you

alfadriver wrote: Which is great IF there is a bus to take.

That, and the bus, aka the LC(loser cruiser) is populated by an "interesting" cross section of society

FlightService wrote: In reply to 4cylndrfury & jstand: You quip and jeer but on this forum, we tend NOT to bend to the norm in internet behaviors. Just seems really odd on the topic of self-driving cars gets us to the "normal" turn of events.

Not really. This is a forum populated by driving enthusiasts, folks who are not going to take being turned into a passenger in the driver's seat of their own car lightly. Not unlike the response you get when taking candy from a baby.

Count me in the pro-autonomy camp. While I prefer to drive performance cars, we have four young children so my wife drives a minivan. We use the van for ferrying the kids, errands, and trips so our priorities for that vehicle were convenience, safety and comfort. Nose-to-tail airbags, ABS, traction control, blind-spot monitoring, automatic emergency braking--I wish that car had the full gamut. And every time we take a road trip on the interstate I wish it had autopilot. Performance driving never enters the equation for this vehicle, and I bet that most families with kids have similar use cases.

I notice poor Mr. Wallens is staying out of this poop storm. Good on you sir.

I think we can alleviate this heated discussion by remembering that "a world filled with self driving vehicles" will not happen in any of our lifetimes. It's so far off that only our children, or even grandchildren will have to engage in such fruitless debate, such as the one occurring now.

I love the idea of self-driving cars for one reason: my mother. You've seen her, she's the one going 50 in the left lane, oblivious to all traffic around her. If her car will drive itself and keep her in the right lane, maintaining 55-60, using signals to change lanes, looking both ways before pulling out, I am on board. It will make my job of driving 80 much easier.

I'll jump in.....

Self driving cars are a really cool idea. While my current commute is less than 10 minutes, it was much longer at one time and I would have loved the idea of getting in my car and having it drive me to work as I get in another 30 minutes of sleep or read or get started on the work day early. Or plugging in a location and having it drive me on a long trip. (Provided the mapping systems work, they still seem buggy....)

However, the transition to them will actually slow things down, significantly. Driving is inherently dangerous. It's not like an automated washing machine or even airline travel where there is little to no interaction with others. Furthermore, automated cars will need to interact with humans (of varying skills) and other autonomous vehicles which will, most likely, have different systems and software. But, I digress.....

The aids will come slowly (as they already are) and we, as humans, will want to rely on them more and more. There will reach a point that people rely on driving aids long before the aids are capable enough to handle every situation. Heck, manufacturers have all kinds of commercials now touting the feature that their cars will stop themselves. No need for you to even pay attention! LOTS of people will want that feature to give up one more thing they're responsible for. More aids, more people giving up on paying attention.

We'll see a significant (in my opinion) increase in accidents as people are rapidly willing to give up responsibilities of driving. I predict that these systems, for a time, will be outlawed or put on hold until the rest of the systems catch up. At that point, you'll be forced (by laws or cost) to have a fully automated vehicle and when 99% of the cars on the road are automated, the fatalities (again, in theory) will start to go down.

Case in point the Tesla driver last year who had a regular daily commute and let the car take over and it drove under a truck because it didn't see it. While a tragedy, it's a perfect example of people's willingness to give up the responsibilities of driving.

Now, one controversial item..... "If you don't want to commute, move closer". I'm in tech. Unlike my parents, my generation doesn't stay at a company for 40 years and retire with a gold watch and a pension. So, my commute changes every few years, whether by choice (better pay/job) or not (RIFS/Layoffs). Furthermore, companies grow and shrink and end up moving offices. Right now, they're talking of moving us to a location that will increase my commute by 10X or more. My wife has a job in a different part of the city. I don't make enough to pull up stakes and move every couple of years, so I have to commute to work. Would I like to always be five minutes from the office? Of course I would. But if I had that kind of money, I probably wouldn't be working, anyway....

-Rob

Autonomous cars, in our lifetime, will make driver's cars more like horses are today. IMHO

ERMAGERD...walk away...walk away...walk away...

Trackmouse wrote: I notice poor Mr. Wallens is staying out of this poop storm. Good on you sir. I think we can alleviate this heated discussion by remembering that "a world filled with self driving vehicles" will not happen in any of our lifetimes. It's so far off that only our children, or even grandchildren will have to engage in such fruitless debate, such as the one occurring now.

Naw..... he just pulled the pin on the grenade and walked away. lol

cannot walk away...Im 12 years old at heart....

Colton wrote: In reply to 4cylndrfury & jstand: You quip and jeer but on this forum, we tend NOT to bend to the norm in internet behaviors. Just seems really odd on the topic of self-driving cars gets us to the "normal" turn of events.

Thanks so much for explaining to me how things work "on this forum". I see that like you, I too am a fan of posturing and passive aggression. Being a new member to this board, I need to meet people of a like mind and with similar interests, and would like to subscribe to your newsletter.

I think for the masses who don't care about driving, the steps were making in automation are great, there's been several times that I would love to have the car just drive me the 14 hours from Florida to Tennessee.

Here's another reason I like the idea of automation for the morning commute.

https://www.youtube.com/embed/iHzzSao6ypE

In reply to 4cylndrfury:

Now you're just being obtuse when clearly this is a case for acute.

FlightService wrote:

edizzle89 wrote: exactly, that's why you should put your opinion on a sign and stick it in your front yard like with presidential candidates. that's how you change peoples opinions, with a plastic sign so everyone who drives by can be swayed by your efforts

In case you really cared.

the guys making political signs probably paid to have that article written.

conspiracy confirmed!!!

4cylndrfury wrote:

Colton wrote: In reply to 4cylndrfury & jstand: You quip and jeer but on this forum, we tend NOT to bend to the norm in internet behaviors. Just seems really odd on the topic of self-driving cars gets us to the "normal" turn of events.

Thanks so much for explaining to me how things work "on this forum". I see that like you, I too am a fan of posturing and passive aggression. Being a new member to this board, I need to meet people of a like mind and with similar interests, and would like to subscribe to your newsletter.

Stop using words you don't understand the meaning of and I take umbrage to your opinion to the members of this forum being like every other forum on the web.

I plainly stated, and not passive-aggressively, that this forum doesn't act like you are acting right now. We tend to not call people names like you just did and we tend to behave ourselves with a little more decorum. This particular thread has bent to your apparent mentality, and apparently your opinion of what the GRM forum always has been.

So after 9 years of being on this board, you think that calling people names and this forum are similar to every other forum on the internet, not just this thread, but the forum? Because that is exactly what you just did.

In reply to edizzle89:

I snorted when I read that.

FlightService wrote:

4cylndrfury wrote:

Colton wrote: In reply to 4cylndrfury & jstand: You quip and jeer but on this forum, we tend NOT to bend to the norm in internet behaviors. Just seems really odd on the topic of self-driving cars gets us to the "normal" turn of events.

Thanks so much for explaining to me how things work "on this forum". I see that like you, I too am a fan of posturing and passive aggression. Being a new member to this board, I need to meet people of a like mind and with similar interests, and would like to subscribe to your newsletter.

Stop using words you don't understand the meaning of and I take umbrage to your opinion to the members of this forum being like every other forum on the web. I plainly stated, and not passive-aggressively, that this forum doesn't act like you are acting right now. We tend to not call people names like you just did and we tend to behave ourselves with a little more decorum. This particular thread has bent to your apparent mentality, and apparently your opinion of what the GRM forum always has been. So after 9 years of being on this board, you think that calling people names and this forum are similar to every other forum on the internet, not just this thread, but the forum? Because that is exactly what you just did.

My last post to you:

I called you out on being a troll. Your holier-than-thou facade is thin and entirely unconvincing. You assume the stance of someone staying above the fray, claiming conflict avoidance is the norm, as you demean the commentary of other members, you try to tell me that I dont understand the terms Im using, and you can say with a straight face that you're not posturing? You deem my posts "quips" and "jeers", and patronize me, as though I dont understand the forum, and that is speaking plainly?

You very likely are a decent guy in person. The web is an odd lens through which to view someones attitudes and beliefs. I just think that the best case scenario is that you and I dont post in the same threads anymore...at least not "in reply to" each other anyway.