Thoughts on remote mount turbo?

cxhb wrote: lol I doubt they deal in rice... And if it seems I implied that, I certainly didnt mean to.

Did not take it as a negative at all. I agree that there is in fact a market for less than stoutly built cars and there are a lot of folks in the sport import market who will cater to that. So many in fact that one would be safe to assume that if you swing a dead cat most of what you hit will be rice shops. rightly so.

I am sorry I did not have time to give a more thoughtful opinion when I posted before as I was in transit on my cell phone but now I have time and a few thoughts.

Seems your bottom line is that you just want more power. As I have been giving a lot of thought to what to build to replace my beloved Evo the Honda option has been one that readily came to mind. I played out all the ways to make power and they include but are not limited to...

1) Build a bigger B.

2) K swap.

3) Turbo of solid build with lower compression motor.

4) Kraftwerks supercharger.

5) Combo of the above.

Me, I would want to go for #5 and do the Kraftwerks Kswap. There are guys running them with great success making scads of power in light cars and great reliability.

Just my thoughts... your mileage may vary.

6) j32a

K-swap seems like a cool idea. Just still a little skeptical on them. When I left the Honda dealership I was working at a while back there were a number of them coming back that were having problems that just didnt seem like problems hondas should have...

But of course this could be an isolated incident and im sure the aftermarket has solutions for such problems (better timing chain tensioners). I know that hybrid racing even has kits to keep A/C when you do a k-swap which is full of win with high fives all around.

I want more power of course... But the reason I was thinking turbo was the torque. Hondas are just gutless torqueless motors. They make power, but you have to make them sing to extract every little bit out of it. Its fun doing this, and they do sing well, but sometimes more torque is what you want.

K20, six speed transmission, and a Japanese 5.09 CRV final drive might be a good option... Torque by gearing, Honda high redline fun, NA reliability (NOTE: not saying turbo is unreliable, but the engine is fairly unstressed in its stock engineered state)... I may have just answered my own question... hmm...

Taiden wrote: 6) j32a

UNDERSTEER. Thats a LOT of weight to put on the front wheels of an already understeer prone vehicle... If I was going to do a j32 swap, I'd put it in the hatch area of another hatchback... THAT would be sweeeeeet

cxhb wrote K20, six speed transmission, and a Japanese 5.09 CRV final drive might be a good option... Torque by gearing, Honda high redline fun, NA reliability (NOTE: not saying turbo is unreliable, but the engine is fairly unstressed in its stock engineered state)... I may have just answered my own question... hmm...

TSX swap maybe for even more cubes?

I like the final drive idea btw.

In reply to cxhb:

LOL Mechanical Engineer.

In reply to FlightService:

I see lol I'm a mechanical engineering technology student. Currently taking physics 2 and we JUST finished the topic of entropy.

In reply to cxhb:

Hmm, I ran a turbo on a CRX for 8 years and didn't have any underhood or oil temp problems. It was hot for sure, but not hot enough to cause a problem. Maybe those guys that do need to improve their setup.

The remote turbo worked well on these and was intercooled.

The USAAC notified Kartveli that the XP-47A and the XP-44 Rocket contracts were canceled, since P-43/XP-44 airframe was to small to meet the new requirements. (The XP-44 Rocket was based on the P-43 Lancer airframe with a radial engine and never made it past the mock-up stage.) Kartveli then quickly prepared a rough sketch of a new XP-47B prototype, but it was a daring concept. He planned to use the new 2,000 hp Pratt & Whitney Double Wasp XR-2800-21, eighteen cylinder, two-row radial engine, which was the largest and most powerful aircraft engine ever developed in the United States.2 The new design would incorporate eight 0.50 inch machine guns, additional ammunition, increased fuel capacity and armor protection for the pilot. (The final fuel load was slightly under the capacity required, but this was overlooked as the aircraft met performance specifications.) Additionally the airplane would include an efficient super-charging duct system that would offer the least interrupted airflow. Kartveli therefore adopted the unorthodox method of designing this feature first, and then building up the fuselage around it. Despite the fact that the supercharger was in the tail and the engine was in the nose, the arrangement worked quite well—providing a system that was durable and less susceptible to battle damage.

The large P-47 Thunderbolt turbo-supercharger was stowed internally in the rear fuselage, with a large air intake duct mounted under the engine, together with the engine oil coolers. Exhaust gases were piped back separately to the turbine and expelled through the turbine exhaust duct in the bottom of the fuselage. Ducted air is then fed to the centrifugal impeller, and returned, via an intercooler to the engine under pressure. The principle behind a supercharger is that the exhaust gas is directed to a turbine that has a shared axle with a centrifugal impeller. Outside air is directed through the compressor and delivered to the engine intake. This allows the engine to deliver more power as the airplane gains altitude in the thinner air of the upper atmosphere.

Honestly, i think you're making this complicated, OP.

Turbo hondas aren't really prone to underhood heat anymore than any other car.

And stick with B-series. It's cheap.

B16 + turbo = awesome.

Just put it together smartly and you'll be fine.

i want a b16 turbo locost

Why not insulate the exhaust parts? Here is a pic I took yesterday of my stroker DSM going together.

In reply to cxhb:

Fun stuff, don't do what I did and get enthalpy and entropy confused. Looking back I don't see how I did it but I did.

i have nothing important to say other than that i am against torque by gearing..

Because according to my .02, a car that isnt comfortable/fun on the highway is a half-ass street machine no matter what else it does well.

In fact, in thinking about turboing my Honda Insight, one of the high points for me will be that i will be able to boost in one long gear (3rd) from ~55 to 100 mph.

.. and then shift to 5th and be doing like 3600 rpm at 100 mph.

Vigo wrote: i have nothing important to say other than that i am against torque by gearing.. Because according to my .02, a car that isnt comfortable/fun on the highway is a half-ass street machine no matter what else it does well. In fact, in thinking about turboing my Honda Insight, one of the high points for me will be that i will be able to boost in one long gear (3rd) from ~55 to 100 mph. .. and then shift to 5th and be doing like 3600 rpm at 100 mph.

The only way I would do this is if I did a K-swap. Then I thankfully would have a 6th gear. I always thought they should have put a 6th gear on the B-series engine/transmission combos... On the K's they did.

With an RSX type-s transmission and a 5.09 final drive, 205-50-15 tires, at 70 mph i would be turning about 3750rpms in 6th gear. Which is less than I currently am with a stock B16 engine/transmission combo.

666csi wrote: Why not insulate the exhaust parts? Here is a pic I took yesterday of my stroker DSM going together.

Cool, where did you find that shielding for the manifold itself? I would more than likely use a cast manifold for durability reasons and I think that would most likely cover it.

With an RSX type-s transmission and a 5.09 final drive, 205-50-15 tires, at 70 mph i would be turning about 3750rpms in 6th gear. Which is less than I currently am with a stock B16 engine/transmission combo.

The 6th gear definitely helps, then.

I dont know much about hondas, as you can tell!

Cars are cars. Honda, Nissan, Ford... Its whatever. Some manufacturers cars are just wound a little tighter than others lol Honda being one of them... Its like they took that torque by gearing idea and just ran with it... then forgot to put a sixth gear in until around 2003.

cxhb wrote: In reply to Rustspecs13: Great info, I just dont want to deal with the heat issues I have seen. I have a B16 EK hatch. Most of the problems I have talked about are from a guy who runs I believe redline time attack. Now with that being said I know that my car will never sustain the amount of stress he puts his car through. I am NOT that good of a driver, nor do I have the time or money to do track day upon track day let alone run a legitimate time attack... Though I want to do track days sometime in the near future (probably this coming summer). For now I'll just stick to autocross and the events that OUTBRAKE throws. I understand turbo hondas have been done a BILLION times. And I could make a BILLION different power levels. My biggest concern is heat issues. I just dont want to deal with that. I only throw this option out there to see how efficient it is in a real world application, and If its even beneficial to look into and its starting to look like it isnt. lol And as far as taking my car to slowmotion or zerodrift or anyone else, I wouldnt. I dont like other people working on my car.

I just brought up slowmotion because I've seen a lot of their cars up close (the shop I'm at* uses their dynos some times) and they have minimal heat management. Some are just tubular manifolds, and open engine bays, no heat shielding at all. There's been a few turbo hondas at the challenge.

A time attack car will almost always have heat issues no matter what platform it is, some may be worse then others but its still there. That's just what happens when you push a good amount of power for long periods of time.

A super basic setup with a cast or tubular manifold with heat wrap that's available any where, or a heat shield like the DSM just posted would be fine. A good non half sized radiator and a good intercooler, and if your oil temps are higher, a oil cooler really isn't that bad to install. 250WHP worth of heat isn't that bad at all. I think your just over concerned with heat. Its an issue but easily dealt with at low power levels.

A B20 with a B16/18 Vtec head would be a good option. 180-220hp is pretty achievable but that's really pushing the engine, and like you said it takes revs to use it all.

I almost turbo'd my crx, it had a B18B1 in it, and I had a turbo, fmic, and dsm 450cc injectors. I could have made the rest, but it wasn't a car I was keeping so I didn't. It really would have been a great setup, the B series with just a few psi wakes up pretty nicely.

I love the outbreak events, I think I've been too about half of the ones at G&J cartway. Always drifting so far though, I've haven't bought really nice tires yet. If you've seen a white 240sx drifting- it was probably me. I went to the opener and closer this season, first with a hatch then with my coupe a couple weeks ago.

I work around rotarys at a lot so I guess I'm a little tainted when it comes to heat management. My bosses race FD has a 3 or 4in thick radiator that takes over a gallon, maybe two in order to fill the radiator its self. Compared to that, and the crazy oil cooler setups rotarys need, a turbo piston engine seems a lot easier LOL.

*I work part time at Defined Auto works, a rotary/rwd specialty shop. We do cages and all kinds of work tough so we aren't so narrowly focused lately. And I'm only here because they are the only guys I'd trust to work on my car period.

Any way, either way you do it shouldn't be ground breaking really. I'm sure you'd enjoy na or turbo, but it sounds like turbo torque is what you really want.

~Alex

In reply to Rustspecs13:

lol In no way am I looking to be ground breaking... Just looking into ways to make more power. Mainly more torque, and be reliable. If you were just at this last event I think I was the guy who did your tech inspection.

What about a jackson racing supercharger and dyno tune on ectune?

Is it just me or do we have enough central ohio guys on this thread to start a $2011 team?

We probably have enough to do a couple cars.

dsycks wrote: Is it just me or do we have enough central ohio guys on this thread to start a $2011 team?

Im more southwest Ohio... Im hoping (praying is a better word) that the challenge will actually be my senior design project and ill leave it up to the next generation Miami students to do better than me. We'll see what happens.

As an OU guy... who says I was including you in the central Ohio category?

Actually I saw Fairfield and thought Fairfield County which is just SE of Cbus.