Time To Move On?

I'm having a bit of a crisis of faith in the Church Of Miata, and I am looking for you fellow GRM'ers to help me out (although I think I know what the answers will likely be). I've owned my Miata for the past 4 years and have fiddled with pretty much every aspect, in the process turning it into what I call a C/SP Lite car. Recently I took it out for about a 3 hour drive and came back to the house, and it wasn't until the next day that I realized that I just didn't really enjoy the drive. Didn't hate it, but it didn't put a smile on my face. 

The problems:

-Power: I know that people insist that Miata's aren't a numbers car, but 115hp gets pretty tiring after a while, when you have to knock down to 3rd or 4th gear to climb hills, and you have to flog it away from every stoplight to prevent getting run over because even minivans make triple the horsepower these days. Planned on dropping in a built '00 1.8L this winter, but I'm not sure if I want to spend that time and money and still not really be satisfied. And, yes, I know Keith would be willing to sell me a turbo, or I could drop in any other number of engines, but that plays into Problem 2

-Uncompetitive: I kinda pigeonhold myeself into C/SP through a Torsen swap and an aluminum flywheel. I win our combined SP/SM class every year, but strictly because I'm the only person to show up consistently. Have yet to win an event where there is competition. And it's irritating to run fast raw times and then get bombed back to bottom of the heap overall. I could build it into true C/SP car, but that would be expensive and I wouldn't want to drive it on the street and I refuse to own a car that I have to trailer. I could go back to STR (now that the Torsen swap is legal) but I would have to change back the flywheel (ugh) and I'd be up against S2000s. I could also go to STS (switch out the flywheel and put the 1.6L VLSD in and munch through those like candy) but that'd go back to Problem 1 of still having 115hp.

Holding Me Back: I want to do Targa Southland or SCCA Nationals or even just track days but it's not really possible with this car. A lot of tracks in the area won't let you out in a roadster without a rollbar and harnesses. And harnesses mean race seats. And a lot of race seats don't fit Miatas or end up sitting higher than stock seats (not good when I'm 6'3" and 240lbs). The whole uncompetitive thing factors into Nationals (Not that I think I'll go decimate, but I'd feel dumb running C/SP at Nationals on 205-series 200TW tires and a stock 1.6L). And Targa Southland I would not want to attempt to spend a weekend and 600 miles in the car with someone and enough clothes and gear for the event.

-Minor Issues: The body is getting kinda scruffy, minor dents and dings and a really E36 M3ty repaint. I'm tired of incurable water leaks. I'm tired of rattles. I feel like if I ever got in a crash or hit a deer, I'd just straight-up die. I go on long road trips and it's kinda buzzy traveling at 70mph and 3500rpm. I dislike that I can't fit real tires under it without hacking up the body or running monster truck ride height.

What I Do Like: I have it pretty much sorted out, as far as gremlins and reliability. Parts are cheap, consumables are cheap. It's easy to work on. It's pre-OBDII, so I can go wild with mods. The underlying chassis is great. These cars are pretty well-known, if it has an issue, can likely find the solution easily. 

So, do I unload it now (including the engine and swap kit and my mountains of spares) and develop a new car for a Street class for the 2018 season? Do I spend the time and money dropping the new engine in and buying R-comps and race wheels and hope that I enjoy it more, and then maybe still unload it after the '18 season. Help a brother out.

I think you hit the nail on the head with the observation that competitive Miatas are either slow or undriveable on the street. At least that's how I feel about them. If you're over the whole "flogging a car is more fun than actually going fast" then there's not a whole lot left in my opinion. I'm currently borrowing a fairly stock MazdaSpeed Miata and I can now say for certain that I like them, but I don't want to own one for the reasons stated. 
There's a reason they make different cars, we have different tastes. 

Cut your losses.  Sell it.

Cheap salvage title c5 corvette and run in stock class.  Don't even think about modifying it beyond what's allowed for stock ax class.  

Enjoy learning curve.  Enjoy 0-100-0 mph in 15 seconds.  Enjoy long road trips getting 30 mpg with high 6th gear (70 mph @ 1500 rpm). Live with pricey consumables.

what's your selling price?

Yeah, sounds like it's time to move on. 

In reply to NickD :

That's pretty much where I ended up with my Miata & a major reason why I sold it(our move being the other). 

You need a C4 Vette. Seriously. 

Honestly, I could never own another stockish miata again for all of the reasons you listed. In fact, when I was shopping I didn't have another miata on the list. The only reason I bought what I did is because of the V8 motor and the fact that really has more to do with a Camaro that lost a half a ton than anything else. 

Sounds like what I did this summer.  Last winter I had "improved" my CSPish Miata with full poly bushings and removing the AC.  And ended up with a car that I absolutely hated to drive.  Totally get the PAX misery, had a 3rd place raw finish turn into a 20th place PAX.  I sold her then and am casually looking for something cheap that I can daily and teach my teenager how to autocross next year.  

It's tough though, over the last 4 years I'd spent a fair bit of money and a LOT of time building a 90% car.  Unfortunately that last 10% in CSP costs 20 grand and results in a car that has to be trailered to events.

If it's not a car you would buy today, than sell it.

I think you know the answer already. 

You need more torques - V8!

Your prose speaks of cone-killing as a big factor in what you live for. A better street-car would be desirable.

Have you  considered the Twins as potential replacement for the Miata? They seem to hold their own  on track largely dependent  on driver skills, plus the hardtop opens up track-day possibilities. You and your stuff gets to stay dry as a bonus.

In reply to Mazdeuce - seth:

I had considered getting a 'speed Miata and building it into an E/Street car in the hopes that the 60+ extra ponies might be enjoyable, but the whole racetrack and cargo space issue killed that. 

In reply to Ovid_And_Flem:

While I could afford a C5 Corvette, and I make a (modest) living as a GM tech, the consumables like brakes and tires, and the insurance would likely eat me alive

In reply to Pete Gossett:

No offense, but I cannot stand C4s. Hate how they look, hate how they drive, and uncomfortable as hell. 

In reply to KyAllroad:

I know that you and I have commiserated on the C/SP situation before. It's like there needs to be an STS/STR + category for Miatas.

In reply to NOHOME:

I have considered the Frisbee Twins, especially after my best event finish of the year came in a D/Street BRZ I had never driven on a course I hadn't even walked, after my Miata broke leaving tech inspection. They are a little new/a little pricey for me at the moment though. And, yes, autocross is a big thing for me, because it's fairly cheap, fairly easy on cars, low-risk and one of the few solid motorsports in my area (the economically depressed are of Central New York)

I had a similar crisis of faith about a year ago. At the time I owned two very similar street/track day Miatas and was contemplating building a Spec Miata car. For me it was a few things:

1) I got the cars nice enough to where I wasn't willing to flog them in the salt/snow/mud of Michigan anymore

2) While you can still find them cheap, solid un-fanboi'd Miatas are starting to cost more money than I'm willing to pay for an inexpensive, low power car

3) Tired of being "another Miata" at the track. (Also they can cost quite a bit to bring up to the next major performance without sacrificing reliability. When I totaled my costs I realized I'd rather just have another platform.) 

I sold everything Miata related and haven't looked back. I'm sure I'll own another some day, but I'm good for now. 

So, what's the #1 most important thing that is the issue?

Driving on the street that sucks (so no full SP set up), not fast enough, better track car, not enough power?

I know I hated having an SP set up to really drive on, too.  But it was sure fun to drive.

Other cars to consider: 350 or 370Z- more of a car all around; BRZ (already mentioned); BMW 3something.  But you did post that you like the chassis a lot.  

The question of power is interesting- as in how much is enough?  I never felt that wanting when racing my Alfa, and I suspect that the power/wt of a well done 1.8l in your early car would be really fun.  

Hard question, that's for sure.

In reply to NickD :

So is the Miata a weekend toy or your DD?

Non Z06 C5 corvettes are cheap to insure. The average demographic are old men that don’t normally wreck them. 

I faced a similar decision last year... although I'm more focused on track work than autoX

I cut loose from mine and haven't looked back

I get it. I've been feeling the same way about my "fun" car lately. If the car puts a smile on my face I can live with compromises like a leaky cabin and cramped interior space but if the enjoyment is gone those little issues get tiresome pretty fast.

Sometimes the enjoyment is intangible but in this case (Honda Civic)... I know I just miss torques.

If I were in your shoes the only reason I'd hang on to the Miata is if it still had value as a trusted primary commuter and I didn't think I could sell it and easily pick up something equally reliable.

In my case I just bought a cheap old minivan to take over appliance duties so I'm going to wait a few weeks to see if the fun car becomes fun again when I don't have to take it to work everyday.

An advantage of Twins is the new spec class. And nothing about it is too difficult or expensive. 

You've built it to "win." Is the car not fun because of that? Is it the street mannors? To hell with the rulebook, build it into a street monster. 

Remember: The best driving roads have no sanctioning body. 

mad_machine said:

what's your selling price?

That brings up a good question. What the heck is this thing even worth? Here's the rundown of everything done to it that I can remember:

1990 Miata B-package

Stock 1.6L, runs good, burns no oil, leaks a little, fairly new timing belt and water pump. Racing Beat header, FM high-flow catalytic converter, Good-Win Racing Roadster Sport 3 stainless exhaust. 

Stock 5-speed. 10lb flywheels and FM stage 1 clutch. '96 4.10 Torsen swap.

New front bearings and lower control arms. Full poly bushing kit. FM/VMAXX coilovers. FM front sway bar (rear removed, but I still have it) with FM billet mounts and Racing Beat links. FM front shock tower brace. FM rear subframe brace. Blackbird Fabworx GT3 rollbar with custom 2-stage powdercoat. 1.8L brake upgrade with Porterfield pads and new calipers. Custom (aggressive) alignment by yours truly. Jongbloed 15x8" wheels with 205/50R15 RE71Rs.

R-package lips. Jass low-profile headlamps. Jass Performance Stealth turn signal intakes. Carbonmiata carbon fiber finish panel. Blackbird Fabworx tow strap. Nardi Deep Corn steering wheel. 1997 M-edition shift knob with alcantara shifter boot. Jass Performance vintage switch panel. FM pedal kit. Functional A/C and power steering and cruise control. Some aftermarket radio.

Spares: both doors, one front fender, both headlight assemblies, a front bumper, stock exhaust manifold, stock sway bars, 1.6L VLSD rear diff. 2000 1.8L engine (0.010" over, Mazda Motorsports pistons, full rebuild, BP-5a "squaretop" JDM intake manifold, Racing Beat header, test pipe)

What would you guys say it is honestly worth? Keep in mind, I live in Central New York and this car has no rust and has never been driven in the winter, and this cars are kind of rare around here and even rotted out junkers command $3k

alfadriver said:

So, what's the #1 most important thing that is the issue?

Driving on the street that sucks (so no full SP set up), not fast enough, better track car, not enough power?

I know I hated having an SP set up to really drive on, too.  But it was sure fun to drive.

Other cars to consider: 350 or 370Z- more of a car all around; BRZ (already mentioned); BMW 3something.  But you did post that you like the chassis a lot.  

The question of power is interesting- as in how much is enough?  I never felt that wanting when racing my Alfa, and I suspect that the power/wt of a well done 1.8l in your early car would be really fun.  

Hard question, that's for sure.

I think lack of power might be the biggest issue, but also how uncompetitive it is in autocrossing too. The built 1.8L may well be enough for me, but I'd hate to go through the time and trouble and expense of installing it and getting it tuned (and have I mentioned I hate electronic stuff?) and then have more time and money into it. 

As for your suggestions, the 350Z has definitely been the car on my radar, either an '03-'04 Track package or an '07-'08 Grand Touring for C/Street. FRS/BRZ are options. BMWs or anything European are off the table. I hate working on European cars. American and Japanese are fine, although there is nothing American in my price range that really spins my crank.

Ovid_and_Flem said:

In reply to NickD :

So is the Miata a weekend toy or your DD?

Kinda both. I have a 3-mile commute one way, so in the spring, summer and fall I drive it to work and go on roadtrips with it (as far as TN an NC) and then park it before the hideous NY winters (I use the winter to do big projects on it). I do keep my winter vehicle (currently a pretty nice Subaru Baja) in reserve through the rest of the year for when the Miata is broke or I just don't feel like driving it.

In reply to NickD :

In theory, when you add the 1.8, it will increase the value of the car, so there is that benefit if you end up not thinking it was enough...

I was in your shoes a few years ago, and again earlier this year.  I bought another one because I thought I missed them, turns out I just didn't enjoy driving it anymore.  In the year that I owned my '93, I drove it maybe a total of 5 days.  I assume it had something to do with me getting older, but these days, even boring cars are absurdly faster than the early Miatas.  I've long questioned if early Miatas are indeed still the answer.  

Since my Miata days I've had a Shelby Mustang, 370Z, BRZ, and a couple of Cooper S's.  I haven't taken any of them on track, but for the street it would be a toss up between the 370 and MINI.  For an everyday car, the Cooper is so much more satisfying to drive.  It has better steering feel, is faster, and gets better gas mileage.  And unlike the Miata, everyone seems to like and comment on them.  Having said that, I should never have sold the 370Z.  I definitely wouldn't hesitate to buy another, especially with the prices falling on the early models. 

The last couple of track days I ran, and it has been a few years, I definitely would not have wanted a Miata.  Not that it would not have been fun, but the other cars were so much faster I'm not sure you could have kept out of the way, even with a supercharged car.

I haven't spent much time in the ND, but the short drive I did have may make it the new answer.  The NAs may have reached the time, at least to me, where they would be termed the vintage answer. 

Yeah, they were underpowered when new, but not drastically so. Kinda like how some think the Frisbee twins are now. But 93 hp around town is almost dangerous. Hell, I get honked at for accelerating too slow in my '04 civic.