Time To Move On?

I find German cars to be needlessly complex for little payoff.

I generally agree with this, but i think the payoff goes up in certain classes of car while the complexity doesn't ever seem to go down. For example, there are stupid things i am ok with on my 996 and R129 because the car seems 'worth it', that would cause me to light a VW Jetta on fire. 

Im starting to wonder if you shouldnt just put a Rotrex on the car you have. 

Maybe a dumb question on my part, but where does a NC Miata fit in classing?  Would it be competitive in a class that can leave it more streetable?  8-12K should buy a decent one, and they are more comfortable and faster than a NA/NB, even if only marginally.  Consumables should stay relatively cheap, too.

In reply to sleepyhead :

You know, the only one of these I've seen at our local autocross was an automatic (which made for a terrible combination to dodge cones) but a quick look around the list o craig shows a bunch of stick shift models for around 10-12 grand with one notable exception.

https://louisville.craigslist.org/cto/d/for-trade-gen-coupe/6347767128.html

Turbocharged 2.0 RWD stick shift sports coupe......I feel like this is what my Eclipse wanted to be way back when.  Time to start saving my pennies.

I actually don't hate the C5 idea, as some have implied. Access to GM parts supply and GM special tools and GM scan tools does improve the situation. And for the stuff I wouldn't want to attempt (clutch replacement, say) I could run it through the shop and our 'Vette-certified tech. Also, got pricing tires, and the cost of good RE71Rs on the 'Vette is the same as putting tires on a 350Z. And as someone mentioned, the 'Vette is cheap to insure.

Other option is, say to hell with competitiveness and just convert the Miata to some sort of guided missile and chase raw times. Did the J-series swap ever get really sorted out? I seem to recall there were issues with the electronic portion of that swap as well as hood/ground clearance? 240-300hp/lb-ft in a 2300lb Miata seems like I wouldn't worry about lack of power, although fitting enough tire under it might be tricky.

In reply to eastside Utah John Cougar Montana :

NCs are classed in C-Street which isn't bad.  Mod them a bit and they do really well in STR while staying livable.  They are much more "car" than NA/NB and more challenging to work on.  Not a bad choice though.

KyAllroad (Jeremy) said:

NCs are classed in C-Street which isn't bad. 

...Aside from that whole getting beat up on by ND's and FRS/BRZ/86's thing.

Driven5 said:

KyAllroad (Jeremy) said:

NCs are classed in C-Street which isn't bad. 

...Aside from that whole getting beat up on by ND's and FRS/BRZ/86's thing.

Not FR-S/BRZ anymore. They went to D/Street. Which was why I was considering a 350Z, because they have the Frisbee twins off their back now.

In reply to NickD :

Whoops...My mistake.  Forgot that's only the 17+ models now, along with the earlier TRD suspension models.  Of course, none of which changes the NC being a punching bag to the ND, relatively speaking.  Not that it couldn't be somewhat competitive at a local level.  Either way, the BRZ/FRS would definitely be a more competitive pick than an NC, and still pretty easy on consumables.

You can always run in PAX only class a lot of faster  guys do you wont be winning your class of 1 but who cares. You can still compete vs other drivers. I think with forced induction and some widers wheels/tires you are not far off an SSM car

...or just go straight to plaid and start accumulating parts for a FM V8 conversion... 

All this friggin' handwringing over running around a cone filled parking lot trying to win a piece of plastic.  Pick something you enjoy driving and don't worry about it.  LOL

If you're only after 240-300hp just boost what you have.  My .02

Vigo said:

If you're only after 240-300hp just boost what you have.  My .02

Probably what I'll do, I guess. By the Rotrex kit and hang it on my '00 motor. Considering that engine has ARP head and main studs, and I can widen the ring gap, I should be able to step up from the 8psi pulley (which they claim makes 195hp) and make enough power to get myself killed. The SSM PAX is barely worse than C/SP (from .867 to .860) and the car should be a hell of a lot faster. The biggest hurdle will be installing the MegaSquirt and getting that stuff tuned. I may have to drag you GRM'ers to my garage in the middle of a NY winter for assistance.

In reply to NickD :

Sounds like a plan...what will do for increased rubber needs?

In reply to Ovid_and_Flem :

Real CSP and SSM cars have moved to 15x11 wheels and 275 A7 Hoosiers.  You can get away with 9" wheels (I did) and 10" is fine but the pointy end seems to be 11".  That means swapping tires at the site.  Hoosiers means your consumables costs goes through the roof ($1,300 a set which last 100 runs means $13 each time you pull to the line to dodge cones.)

Aero starts to be an issue, 10" tall spoiler in CSP and giant wing in SSM.

I'd probably just run those 235/45R15 Toyo R-888Rs, as they are cheaper than the Hoosiers and I think will fit under stock body, considering I run a ton of camber and have rolled fenders. Might have to crank the ride height up. Yeah, 235-series Toyos aren't 275 Hoosiers but they are a damn sight better than the 205-series RE71Rs I ran last year.

I know you said no FWD, but hear me out.  Disclaimer: I ended up staying with my Miata (which isn't an ES front-runner anymore) after a similar personal "crisis".  The two that got me closest to making a move were the FiST and a 5/6 year old GTI.  Either feels/is significantly faster than the Miata, has decent AC, isn't a convertible, has actual trunk space (and even room for 4 adult-sized humans).  Both currently slot pretty nicely into several autocross prep levels and are suitable for track days without a ton of modifications.  Both are better "tall guy" cars.  Consumables and premium gas as well as boy-racer insurance kick up the operating costs a bit, but either is capable of being a 4 season car, so eliminating the "winter-beater" makes that a wash or even a money saver.

So why did I keep the Miata?  In the end, I autocross for fun.  I know I need my best day to occur coincidentally with the competition's worst day to win.  I'm OK with that.  I like having a "daily driver" and a "fun car".  It's worth the extra cost to me.  I've done a few track days and realized that, financially, that's never going to be a regular part of my life.  In the end, though, the real issue is that I still enjoy the Miata.  I still look back at it in the parking lot as I'm walking into work.  It still gets the "place of honor" in the garage.  It's still cheap to insure, feed and fix.  It stands out in the sea of cars at the grocery store.  My kids like it.  My wife tolerates it because it doesn't kill our budget.  My last set of tires cost $68.00/corner.  Etc., etc.  If none of this applies to you, make a move. 

Jaynen said:

I think with forced induction and some widers wheels/tires you are not far off an SSM car

With FI and wider wheels / tires he's in SSM but still a long, expensive way from the good end of SSM.  Ask me how I know.

The Manic Miata has similarities to your car in fundamental build.  It has Koni Yellows and GC coilovers, but the rest of the suspension still could use bushings, etc.  It has big brakes and swaybars.  FM chassis brace.  Not quite as sorted as your car on the chassis front, but solid.  15x9 wheels running used 225/45 A7 takeoffs.

It's got deep Corbeau fixed-back seats and 5-points and a big fat rollbar.  At 5'-10" and 275 I strap it on like running shoes.

The Whipple twin-scroll blower makes about 10 psi and is good for just under 240 rwhp / 190 ft/lbs of torque with the intercooler.  Torsen, LW flywheel.  It goes zoom when you step on it.  It's very entertaining to drive on the street, if a little crashy on bad pavement, and fun to drive on the autocross course.  I run in SSM locally and can win unless the quick dude in the quick C5 shows up...

...but I've ridden in a well-prepared SSM Miata, and mine is not one.  The rollbar is important to me for street use but it is 50 extra pounds mounted way high up.  The car needs a splitter that almost scrapes the ground and big wing out back.  I should strip all the carpeting out.  The EMS is functional but archaic and should be replaced and re-tuned.  I need 15x11 wheels, 275 tires, flares, and a Sawzall.

All this would cost time, effort, and money I'm not willing to spend, so I put up with not being competitive.  I have fun driving the car as it is.  If you can live with that, 240 rwhp is enough and very doable with the engine swap you have plus a blower or snail.

But it's going to be hopelessly outgunned in SSM, probably worse than you are in CSP.  If that's a real issue, then the question answers itself, unfortunately.

In reply to kazoospec :

I said that I wouldn't mind the FiST, but I would need to test-drive one first. And I don't know anyone well enough to let me flog theirs.

In reply to Duke :

Yeah, I'm aware that the boosted motor won't make me competitive but it fixes the lack of power complaint. And the SSM PAX is barely worse than C/SP's, while the car will be much quicker.

In reply to NickD :

Sorry, missed the comment about the FiST. 

IMO, You won't really need to "flog" the FiST to get the feel for it.  I drove a brand-new shiny one at the local dealership.  I was respectful of the fact that it probably wasn't going to end up being my car.  You can tell right away even at about 8/10th's that it's a great handling car, comfortable and has a really solid power to weight ratio.  I suppose if you are REALLY serious about autocross you might want a "borrowed" car that you can run at 10/10th to try out, but it's success rate at nationals would seem to indicate it's a solid choice.  If you like it, I wouldn't be afraid to assume the competition part will take care of itself.   

In reply to kazoospec :

See, I would need to test it at 10/10ths, because that's where my issue with FWD is. They tend to fall apart and push or get real sloppy at the limit.

I think you'd be very happy with that.  As mentioned I have an STS car with comparable power to yours, or maybe a bit more.  I also have a craptastic supercharged NB that might be making 160 whp on a good day and weighs 200 lbs more.  It is OH MY GOD HOLY E36 M3 WTF faster than the STS car.  Absolutely bonkers by comparison.

And you are talking about another 70 HP on top of that.  At least.  Yeah, you're gonna be happy.

In reply to RedGT :

Yeah, I doubt I'll get bored with a max-effort blown Miata because it'll likely kill me in a swift and fiery crash before I have time to get bored. Getting it to hook up should be interesting.

I'm planning on the trackdog racing rotrex kit. Straight out of the box without even getting into a larger pulley or anything I think it does about 215 wheel/166tq on the 1.6. I am going to do their NB1 kit which starts at almost 250whp and 190 torque but they can do different pulley sizes or even the larger blower as my end game goal is 300whp with torque staying below the 240-250 mark which is when the miatas start breaking transmissions