Time To Move On?

 I may have to drag you GRM'ers to my garage in the middle of a NY winter for assistance.

As a self-employed mobile mechanic and part-time college instructor who doesn't work over winter break, i can absolutely be flown across the country to work on cars in December.  

Jaynen said:

I'm planning on the trackdog racing rotrex kit. Straight out of the box without even getting into a larger pulley or anything I think it does about 215 wheel/166tq on the 1.6. I am going to do their NB1 kit which starts at almost 250whp and 190 torque but they can do different pulley sizes or even the larger blower as my end game goal is 300whp with torque staying below the 240-250 mark which is when the miatas start breaking transmissions

 

Kraftwerks says their NB1 kit is good for 195hp/155lb-ft but that is with the smaller C30-74 blower on a stock engine. My BP-4W is bored 0.010 over and has a BP-5A "square-top" intake manifold, Racing Beat header, cat delete and cat-back so it should better that even without playing with pulleys. I'd settle for 220-230hp at the rear tires. I wish Track Dog listed an actual price on their website.

Edit: Whoops, they do list a price if you dig. $1000 bucks more than Kraftwerks

Also, I hate that places list "quiet" as a pro for Rotrex blowers. No, I want that crazy slide-whistle whoop to let people know I'm packing heat.

Hey Nick, it sounds like you made up your mind, but if you decide to change directions, I might be interested in your engine.. I was planning on swapping a VVT into my 91 this winter, but it sounds like yours would do nicely if you decide to part ways with it :)

NickD said:

Jaynen said:

I'm planning on the trackdog racing rotrex kit. Straight out of the box without even getting into a larger pulley or anything I think it does about 215 wheel/166tq on the 1.6. I am going to do their NB1 kit which starts at almost 250whp and 190 torque but they can do different pulley sizes or even the larger blower as my end game goal is 300whp with torque staying below the 240-250 mark which is when the miatas start breaking transmissions

 

Kraftwerks says their NB1 kit is good for 195hp/155lb-ft but that is with the smaller C30-74 blower on a stock engine. My BP-4W is bored 0.010 over and has a BP-5A "square-top" intake manifold, Racing Beat header, cat delete and cat-back so it should better that even without playing with pulleys. I'd settle for 220-230hp at the rear tires. I wish Track Dog listed an actual price on their website.

Edit: Whoops, they do list a price if you dig. $1000 bucks more than Kraftwerks

Also, I hate that places list "quiet" as a pro for Rotrex blowers. No, I want that crazy slide-whistle whoop to let people know I'm packing heat.

For what its worth, I have a friend with a Kraftwerks kit who was a early tester and he pretty much uses nothing from their kit anymore, but has good things to say about Trackdog especially in regards to heat management. I could not find the price listed on the site tho (Trackdog) but I did email with them and they have a lot of options with/without AC which blower you want, if you want very basic fuel tuning or megasquirt etc

Jaynen said:

NickD said:

Jaynen said:

I'm planning on the trackdog racing rotrex kit. Straight out of the box without even getting into a larger pulley or anything I think it does about 215 wheel/166tq on the 1.6. I am going to do their NB1 kit which starts at almost 250whp and 190 torque but they can do different pulley sizes or even the larger blower as my end game goal is 300whp with torque staying below the 240-250 mark which is when the miatas start breaking transmissions

 

Kraftwerks says their NB1 kit is good for 195hp/155lb-ft but that is with the smaller C30-74 blower on a stock engine. My BP-4W is bored 0.010 over and has a BP-5A "square-top" intake manifold, Racing Beat header, cat delete and cat-back so it should better that even without playing with pulleys. I'd settle for 220-230hp at the rear tires. I wish Track Dog listed an actual price on their website.

Edit: Whoops, they do list a price if you dig. $1000 bucks more than Kraftwerks

Also, I hate that places list "quiet" as a pro for Rotrex blowers. No, I want that crazy slide-whistle whoop to let people know I'm packing heat.

For what its worth, I have a friend with a Kraftwerks kit who was a early tester and he pretty much uses nothing from their kit anymore, but has good things to say about Trackdog especially in regards to heat management. I could not find the price listed on the site tho (Trackdog) but I did email with them and they have a lot of options with/without AC which blower you want, if you want very basic fuel tuning or megasquirt etc

What issues did he have with the Kraftwerks kit exactly? Could part of it been that he was an early tester? I already have silicone hoses, Koyo aluminum radiator and a coolant reroute and I plan to delete the A/C

This is him talking about his car.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p7_QQ9LLDIU&t=298s

He may answer it there otherwise you can probably comment and ask him. He also works at least part time with Goodwin Racing and competes in Global Time Attack, I am going with the Trackdog partially due to his recommendation because I trust it.

Kraftwerks has a pretty horrible and defensive customer service reputation over on miata.net as well from what I have seen which made me uncomfortable dealing with them.

I feel where you are at, my '96 Miata feels underpowered for VIR with its 1.8 and I am not going to build a car I need to trailer.

The options I have been looking at are....

1. Sell the Miata and lose a bunch of money.

2. Exocet the Miata which will make it a better track car but I doubt I will street drive it as much.

3. Supercharge it to about 175-185 whp. I have heard things start breaking a lot more frequently as you near 200 whp. If I still dont like it I will have lost even more money when I sell it.

Its going to be option three for me but I dont have a class I need to adhere to with doing HPDE.

Best of luck, its a sticky spot trying to decide if you are going to bail on a project and lose money or go deeper down the rabbit hole in the hopes of making the car into what you are happy with.

In reply to Fr3AkAzOiD :

Yeah, Exocet was never really an option for me. They are cool but ridiculously impractical. I'm not going to want to drive one of those from NY to NC/TN. Nor would it really be feasible. 

As far as supercharging, the BP family of engines is really robust, which is why I decided to go for it. The blocks have enough meet to go over 0.080" over safely. The block and crank are good for 700+hp, the rods to 500hp. They have piston oil squirters. These motors are made for boost. So that's just what I'm going to do.

Jaynen said:

This is him talking about his car.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p7_QQ9LLDIU&t=298s

He may answer it there otherwise you can probably comment and ask him. He also works at least part time with Goodwin Racing and competes in Global Time Attack, I am going with the Trackdog partially due to his recommendation because I trust it.

Kraftwerks has a pretty horrible and defensive customer service reputation over on miata.net as well from what I have seen which made me uncomfortable dealing with them.

From what I'm reading on the interwebz, it seems like a lot of the issues with the Kraftwerks kit were with the rising-rate FPR and fuel cards (I'm going to be running MegaSquirt, so those can go away) and some of the bracketry had issues early on, but then they stopped production and retooled a lot of that stuff. 

As far as supercharging, the BP family of engines is really robust, which is why I decided to go for it. The blocks have enough meet to go over 0.080" over safely. The block and crank are good for 700+hp, the rods to 500hp. They have piston oil squirters. These motors are made for boost. So that's just what I'm going to do.

That's the spirit! I'll never understand the fear-mongering in the miata community when it comes to boost. I have driven my friend's 240-300whp (depends on the state of tune) Ebay turbo miata that's been in one piece without a major hard parts failure for NINE YEARS, and it's fast enough to be very sketchy on the street in anything less than perfect conditions. You can't get bored of trying not to die. Short wheelbase, open top, torque biasing diff RWD that spins tires all the time? That's basically the definition of a thrill ride. 

It's at least twice as entertaining as the stock C5 i recommended. Of the two i would only pick the Vette for long commutes or very high speed racing. 

Vigo said:

As far as supercharging, the BP family of engines is really robust, which is why I decided to go for it. The blocks have enough meet to go over 0.080" over safely. The block and crank are good for 700+hp, the rods to 500hp. They have piston oil squirters. These motors are made for boost. So that's just what I'm going to do.

That's the spirit! I'll never understand the fear-mongering in the miata community when it comes to boost. I have driven my friend's 240-300whp (depends on the state of tune) Ebay turbo miata that's been in one piece without a major hard parts failure for NINE YEARS, and it's fast enough to be very sketchy on the street in anything less than perfect conditions. You can't get bored of trying not to die. Short wheelbase, open top, torque biasing diff RWD that spins tires all the time? That's basically the definition of a thrill ride. 

It's at least twice as entertaining as the stock C5 i recommended. Of the two i would only pick the Vette for long commutes or very high speed racing. 

I started following BP Performance Specialties on Facebook and the things that those guys do with Mazda BP piston engines is insane. 300+hp stock block 1.6Ls, 700+hp 1.8Ls in Ford Festivas, etc.

One thing I have been wondering about is why is "quiet operation" always listed as an advantage of Rotrex blowers? That's a disadvantage. I want people to hear me packing heat.

Fr3AkAzOiD said:

I feel where you are at, my '96 Miata feels underpowered for VIR with its 1.8 and I am not going to build a car I need to trailer.

The options I have been looking at are....

1. Sell the Miata and lose a bunch of money.

2. Exocet the Miata which will make it a better track car but I doubt I will street drive it as much.

3. Supercharge it to about 175-185 whp. I have heard things start breaking a lot more frequently as you near 200 whp. If I still dont like it I will have lost even more money when I sell it.

 

Its going to be option three for me but I dont have a class I need to adhere to with doing HPDE.

 

Best of luck, its a sticky spot trying to decide if you are going to bail on a project and lose money or go deeper down the rabbit hole in the hopes of making the car into what you are happy with.

 

 

I'm not aware of any "breaking stuff" related metrics based on HP only on torque and even then its trans/rear end stuff once you get over 250lb/ft of torque and r-comps. a 1.8 boosted to only 175-185 will be fine and is really minor. I am near VIR also what a fantastic track. Still might run out of gear on the back straight with a miata since their aero is not the best but it should be a blast

penultimeta said:

Yeah, they were underpowered when new, but not drastically so. Kinda like how some think the Frisbee twins are now. But 93 hp around town is almost dangerous. Hell, I get honked at for accelerating too slow in my '04 civic. 

 

I want to move to where you are.  City traffic is frustrating as people take a block or more to accelerate up to 30mph in 35mph main roads that have the lights set for 42mph.

Jaynen said:

Fr3AkAzOiD said:

I feel where you are at, my '96 Miata feels underpowered for VIR with its 1.8 and I am not going to build a car I need to trailer.

The options I have been looking at are....

1. Sell the Miata and lose a bunch of money.

2. Exocet the Miata which will make it a better track car but I doubt I will street drive it as much.

3. Supercharge it to about 175-185 whp. I have heard things start breaking a lot more frequently as you near 200 whp. If I still dont like it I will have lost even more money when I sell it.

 

Its going to be option three for me but I dont have a class I need to adhere to with doing HPDE.

 

Best of luck, its a sticky spot trying to decide if you are going to bail on a project and lose money or go deeper down the rabbit hole in the hopes of making the car into what you are happy with.

 

 

I'm not aware of any "breaking stuff" related metrics based on HP only on torque and even then its trans/rear end stuff once you get over 250lb/ft of torque and r-comps. a 1.8 boosted to only 175-185 will be fine and is really minor. I am near VIR also what a fantastic track. Still might run out of gear on the back straight with a miata since their aero is not the best but it should be a blast

I was hearing 225hp/225tq is when trans, rear end, and stage one clutches start to approach the " you can beat on it at the track for years and be fine" level. Also cooling becomes more of a concern on track with more boost and I like staying out for 30-45 min at a time during open track. Will be running R888R so not Hoosiers but still sticky.

I don't mind if the aero holds me back at the far end of the strait as long as I have enough oomph to get around people I caught in the corners in the first half of the strait.

I hear ya! yeah afaik its not the HP but the torque that breaks stuff so you should be good. Looking forward to running into you at VIR someday! Cooling seems to be the most prevalent issue for sure. I really loved my RC1s but will probably go with VR1s for now since I will be driving it to the track. Waiting to buy wheels/tires until wife actually confirms I get to keep the miata and I can do suspension at same time

Well, yesterday I made space in the garage and tossed the bare block up on a stand and started assembling the engine. Got the oil jets installed, ARP main bearing cap studs and main bearing caps torque, crank and rod bearing clearances set and am working on filing ring gap. Mazda says 0.010"-0.020" of top ring gap, I'm probably going to take it out to 0.025". I'd rather have a slight bit of oil usage and compression leakby then bust the top off the piston.

As a side note, I forgot how therapeutic engine-building is.

I'm really looking into digging into my project once my wife confirms I get to keep it :P Motor Trend On demand roadkill garage guys have been doing a mini series on building an engine and I would love to build one just for the experience.

Vigo said:

As far as supercharging, the BP family of engines is really robust, which is why I decided to go for it. The blocks have enough meet to go over 0.080" over safely. The block and crank are good for 700+hp, the rods to 500hp. They have piston oil squirters. These motors are made for boost. So that's just what I'm going to do.

That's the spirit! I'll never understand the fear-mongering in the miata community when it comes to boost. I have driven my friend's 240-300whp (depends on the state of tune) Ebay turbo miata that's been in one piece without a major hard parts failure for NINE YEARS, and it's fast enough to be very sketchy on the street in anything less than perfect conditions. You can't get bored of trying not to die. Short wheelbase, open top, torque biasing diff RWD that spins tires all the time? That's basically the definition of a thrill ride. 

It's at least twice as entertaining as the stock C5 i recommended. Of the two i would only pick the Vette for long commutes or very high speed racing. 

You never answered in the other thread we discussed this. If you are fast you put alot more stress on the car then if you aren't.

If you have double the HP of a SM but can barely match their lap times, you aren't stressing the car that much. 

You think the guy in the ZL1 Camaro giving me point-bys in my 1.6 Miata was stressing his car very hard? 

I forgot if we have discussed it in this thread, is E85 an option for you in that region? 

With MS, you could even add the GM Flex Fuel sensor and tune the car to run everywhere from E0 to E99.

z31maniac said:

I forgot if we have discussed it in this thread, is E85 an option for you in that region? 

 

With MS, you could even add the GM Flex Fuel sensor and tune the car to run everywhere from E0 to E99.

E85 was  not discussed but it is not an option. The nearest station to me is over 50 miles away.

NickD said:

z31maniac said:

I forgot if we have discussed it in this thread, is E85 an option for you in that region? 

 

With MS, you could even add the GM Flex Fuel sensor and tune the car to run everywhere from E0 to E99.

E85 was  not discussed but it is not an option. The nearest station to me is over 50 miles away.

That's too bad, such a huge boost in FI applications.

In reply to z31maniac :

Is is there an actual sensor for flex fuel?  I just thought it was part of the program that you got to access if you paid the $100 or so for the flex fuel option

In reply to NickD : you know you can use any gas you want with flex fuel.  What it does is allow you the extra horsepower you can get when you use alcohol  in boosted applications.  

Indy cars use 100% alcohol while NASCAR uses 30% alcohol 

I'm just cheap and don't want to pay the premium/annoyance of having to bring E-85 or race gas to the track. Especially when no one is winning HPDE.

frenchyd said:

In reply to z31maniac :

Is is there an actual sensor for flex fuel?  I just thought it was part of the program that you got to access if you paid the $100 or so for the flex fuel option

Yes, there is an actual sensor.