Tow 8,000+ lbs and get 30mpg when unloaded

Is anything there yet?

We keep talking about moving 20 miles further from where I work and maybe buying a larger boat. I've been daydreaming about a tow vehicle that also makes a reasonably economic commuter. I don't think we've quite reached that level of tech yet, although the V6 diesel RAM is getting close and the 2.7L EB F150 might be in the same ballpark. The Colorado isn't too far off either but only gets a 7k lb tow rating. I've heard of highly tuned 7.3L PS diesels getting those numbers but I'm doubtful you'd see it in real world driving. I think it's internet fiction.

Its possible with a PSD, but difficult. 30 would be a high benchmark for a perfectly tuned one, not towing.

I get about 22 in mine, which is roughly tuned.

For real world performance including towing, it is still a stretch.

the 30mpg requirement is not including towing. Let's say it would be rated for 30mpg on the highway, as in a new car highway mpg rating. My idea is that I could see a realistic 25+ in mostly highway driving to work every day.

This is an excellent application for a dual-motor setup. If you had two 4 cylinder motors under the truck hood, you could switch one off completely for better fuel economy, and engage both for towing. I'm not talking about displacement on demand, in that setup you are still pushing pistons in empty cylinders. I am taking about a transmission with two input shafts so one engine could be shut off 100%. Hybrids are getting more popular, maybe this will be the next future tech?

OR how about a hybrid that runs as a plug in electric for commuting duties but fires up a gas-driven generator for heavy-kW towing? Might be simpler to engineer, seems like a more power-focused adaptation of current tech.

The problem is that the cost of a vehicle that can do that gives a hell of a long payback rate. I thought about that with my 8.1 liter Suburban that gets 14 mpg empty and 12 towing 8000lbs. Anything that would tow the trailer and get 25 mpg or better empty would cost so much that I could drive for a couple decades in the 'Burban on the difference in cost. You have to have a lot of other reasons above and beyond cost of gas to make it worthwhile (like tech features, comfort, reliability/warranty, etc). If you're JUST looking for an economic commuter that can tow, you're really looking at a cheap used truck or Suburban type vehicle that the upfront and maintenance costs are so low that you more than make up for the fuel costs. This makes it different than looking at an EV or PHEV for a commuter vs another car, where you CAN make up the costs fairly quickly.

You can't get much more than an honest 25mpg out of a truck big enough to safely tow 8000+ lbs, using a traditional internal combustion engine, physics just won't let it happen.

My gut feeling is that you will not drive enough miles to see the real financial savings.
To get into high tech vehicle like you hope for I bet the numbers would be something like $3k more of annualized vehicle purchase costs to save an annualized $1k in fuel.

Edit: Chris beat me to it and stated himself more eloquently.

New Colorado with the V6 gets 27 and tows 7k, so I'd bet that when the diesel comes around, it will get better mileage and tow more.

8000 lbs is a lot. I wouldn't want to do it with a half ton. I certainly wouldn't want to try to pull 8k up a wet boat ramp or panic stop 8k with something I bought for fuel economy. A coworker bought a new 6 cyl ford ecoboost and says he is only getting 14-15 mpg combined. A diesel is the closest you are going to get, and figure 20-22 mpg. It will cost more to buy, the fuel is more expensive, and repairs are more expensive, but you will have enough truck to handle the job. Now if I were in the same situation the answer would be two vehicles, a heavy duty truck or suburban, probably gas powered and 4x4 for the winter. Then I would buy a gas saver commuter that best suits you. It doesn't have to be expensive because you have the tow rig as a backup if you break down. Since you have two vehicles it doesn't have to be super practical, it can be more fun focused.

In reply to Tom Suddard:

Yeah, I'm thinking that may be the case

In reply to gearheadmb:

A two vehicle solution is certainly the easy button, and probably how I'll end up doing it if I move, but it doesn't generate much of a discussion on a slow workday before a holiday!

In reply to Chris_V:

I keep eyeballing gas V10 Excursions with the same thinking. There are some good examples locally getting down around $6k

I'm in the a similar boat. My 2010 F150 5.4L gets 13mpg daily driving, which is largely stop-n-go. I also tow my open car trailer with the Miata on it to VIR.

The new Ram 1500 3.0L diesel looks appealing. But the problem is what Chris V mentioned. It takes a long time for fuel saving to offset the higher purchase price. Based on my scenario, the Ram could save me about $1600/yr in fuel. But it requires me to go buy a $40K+ new truck. Assuming I break even trading in my current truck, my payment would go up $200/month, but I'd only save $133/month in fuel. And that's assuming the Ram actually gets the 22mpg avg fuel economy I used for my calculations. There would have to be an extra reason to buy a new truck.

PS: I also refuse to spend 90% of my driving life in an eco-box, while my nice fancy truck sits at home. Now if by chance you can swing a 2 car set-up with say a C6 corvette, which are known to get mid-upper 20's on the hwy, and then buy a cheaper tow rig/backup ride... that seems like a win win.

When I was more active in the Cummins world, I heard rumors of 12V engines being able to get close to that mileage number with minor engine mods and some aero mods. Especially 2WD versions (lower = more aero). The best I ever eeked out of my '95 extended cab 4x4 was 24 mpg - using every hyper-miling trick in the book (everyone hated me). When I drove normally, it could get around 22mpg.

Obviously, towing 8000 lbs would be child's play for that truck.

ultraclyde wrote: In reply to Chris_V: I keep eyeballing gas V10 Excursions with the same thinking. There are some good examples locally getting down around $6k

This is why my tow rig is a BB Ford. Dirt cheap buy in and dirt cheap maintenance, more than makes up for the fuel costs. The big but is, it's not my daily and spends weeks just sitting collecting pine needles. If you have to daily it, then the numbers change.

gearheadmb wrote: 8000 lbs is a lot. I wouldn't want to do it with a half ton.

I will just throw in, if you crawl under a early-mid 90's 3/4-1 ton truck and a 05+ 1/2 ton. Most of the new 1/2 tons carry a heavier frame, brakes, etc. throughout. Not to say you are wrong, but just keeping it in perspective.

My Buddies 05 Tundra probably towed better than our 96 F250 powerstroke.

My '94 K1500 with the 6.5L TD gets about 20mpg average, 24mpg on the highway is the best I have seen from it, and this is a 4x4. If I got mine tuned I would think 26-7mpg would not be out of reach for it. I think mine is only rated for 6500lbs towing though since it's a 4x4. I've towed right up to that limit and I felt I could have towed way more with the correct trailer brakes.

I'm trying to remember what the fuel prices were this morning, but I think I saw $2.20 for gasoline and $3.50 for diesel. At those figures a diesel will never make sense for your situation. You would need 48 mpg diesel to match 30 mpg gasoline. Or stated another way, 30 mpg diesel to match 19 mpg gasoline. Granted, prices are wacky right now and I think there's an extra tax component built into diesel around here. But the logic still applies. The cost of fuel is a factor as much as mpg assuming you're trying to save money and not just fuel.

I like diesels and I like the idea of smaller diesel pickups (I grew up with a diesel Rabbit pickup in the driveway), but the reality is that the math rarely works out unless you're driving a lot of miles.

In reply to twolittlebroncos:

Depends on where you are. Around here (central NJ) $2.29 for RUG and about $3 even for diesel.

Diesel Power magazine tested a bone-stock Ram 1500 diesel and reported 28+ highway (higher than EPA estimated). Its already being reported that hypermilers are getting 35 out of them with tunes and aero. Unfortunately, the buy-in cost is pretty insane.

25-28 mpg is pretty attainable with most of the 3/4 ton diesels. Dad's Duramax was getting 22 empty. He just got it back with 30-over injectors, 5-position chip, intake, and exhaust so we don't have accurate numbers yet, but we're expecting 25 once we can resist the urge to keep the knob off of the "extreme" tune setting.

EcoBoost should be able to get you 25. We've had a long string of 6-cylinder SUVs and crossovers hoping for what you seek, but not a single one was able to muster even 20. Latest is a V6 Caddy SVX and it struggles to get 18 with AWD. Last was a Trailblazer that never did better than about 16. Before that was a Blazer that could get 18.

If you can pony up for diesel, it will always pay off in resale. Forget the cost of fuel and MPG, net money back in your pocket diesel always wins.

twolittlebroncos wrote: I'm trying to remember what the fuel prices were this morning, but I think I saw $2.20 for gasoline and $3.50 for diesel.

I wonder if there are extra taxes on diesel where you live because that is pretty crazy. $2.53 gas and $3.28 diesel are the current national averages. That's a pretty standard 30% spread, which is almost always covered by diesel efficiency. In pickups, they can often pull off 50% more. Some smaller cars can sometimes best it by 40-50%. Extreme cases (compare GM TBI pickups versus a 6.5 diesel) where the TBI struggles to get 15 but the diesel gets 25.

With extremely rare exceptions, diesel is ALWAYS the cheaper fuel choice in terms of cents per mile of fuel. I challenge anyone to dispute that using apples-apples comparisons.

One of my guys has a dodge 3500 4x4 with a 5.9 and a programmer and I have driven in it a few times. His overhead (for what that is worth) usually shows 28 mpg.

In reply to Ian F: As of this morning Reg was $2.00, Diesel was $3.25 here. I don't see a 5 mpg improvement ever making the fuel cost difference. Much less the extra purchase cost of a diesel engine.

curtis73 wrote: If you can pony up for diesel, it will always pay off in resale. Forget the cost of fuel and MPG, net money back in your pocket diesel always wins.

Except.... with a higher buy in, it BETTER have better resale, but let's use two trucks...

A used '01 gasser F250 costs you $10k. In 5 years, you can get $6k for it. A used diesel F250 of the same year, would be $16k, and you could get $12k after 5 years of towing. So yes, the resale is better on the diesel, but the buy in is enough higher to offset that higher resale, and then you have the higher cost of fuel during ownership AND the higher cost of repairs and maintenance.

Which is why I replaced a diesel 3500 series dually with a gasser 2500 series Suburban. still have a 12k towing capacity, but when not towing, it's a much nicer place to be at a lower overall cost.