Tow Car Insanity.

Appleseed wrote: Mini vans suck. FWD sucks...

Really?

Wasn't the Odyssey in Gran Turismo IV? I'm pretty sure it was. And I'm pretty sure I laughed when I found out. Nothing like using a Honda Odyssey to run around Laguna Seca.

Autolex said: Appleseed wrote: Mini vans suck. FWD sucks... Really?

Favorite article EVAR!

Trans_Maro wrote:

FTW. Jensenman and I hauled the Abomination to Bannor Elk NC for a hill climb behind my E150 van. His trailer and car must be in the 3500#+ range. Also hauled generator, air compressor, assorted tools and other junk. Total rig weight was probably in the 11-12000# range. Average interstate speed was 70-75 mph. Ran in overdrive most of the way and just let the transmission shift as necessary. Got 9.5 MPG. The climb to the paddock was STEEP!. Poor van never came out of 1st gear for the 2-3 mile climb. At least one tow rig had a smoking transmission when they pulled in(Toyota Tundra). It was steep enough that several of us elected to drive the cars back to the gate at the bottom of the mountain rather than smoking the brakes on the trailers and tow rigs. That in a minivan would have made me nervous. I prefer too much tow rig rather than just enough.

Of course there was the Special that showed up behind a Volvo wagon. He didn't seem too worried, and was headed to another hill climb the following weekend. I think I will stick with the full size van.

I think a hot van is cool. I don't see why Mazda doesn't offer the Mazda 5 with the MS3 drivetrain as the platform is the same. I would be all over that and it would essentially be in a class by itself. In the states anyway.

I drove an E chassis van cab towing my vitara up a crazy ass hill in tennessee and it kept dropping speed and gear hunting. Finally I jammed it in the lower gear manually and floored it (rental van). I watched the temp gauge climb all the way to overheating in about 2 minutes.

Kinda lame.

I didn't stop though.

Never buy used rental vans.

Y'know, I don't really get the American mantra that you need the biggest possible truck to tow a 2000 lb race car on a 1500 lb trailer. People tow everything with anything over here and Europe hasn't exploded or sank into the sea yet. Seriously...

This is totally 100% normal in these parts. No one would even blink and you definitely wouldn't get pulled over. I'm not saying a bigger vehicle isn't better, but you don't need an F350 duallie to pull an MG Midget.

i always wanted one of those Toyota "Fish Vans" as i call them with a 4AGZE swapped in it...

EDIT: even better pic...

Jay wrote: This is totally 100% normal in these parts. No one would even blink and you definitely wouldn't get pulled over. I'm not saying a bigger vehicle isn't better, but you don't need an F350 duallie to pull an MG Midget.

While I tend to subscribe to the "bigger is better... so why not just go with overkill and nuke the thing" theory, I do agree...

The "braked" trailer rating for my TDI wagon is 1500kg/~2700 lbs in Europe... and basically "not recommended" in the US.

I'd be interested in a debate about single axle vs. dual axle trailers. I've heard some folks don't like the idea of a dual axles on a smaller tow vehicle due to the additional drag, but I like the idea of (in theory) reduced tongue weight as well as two more brakes to slow the load in an emergency.

I have found myself lusting after a diesel Excursion as of late.

The "trick" to towing with lighter tow vehicles is to keep the trailer light as well. If you read any English magazines just look at the availability of trailers sized to the loaded vehicle. All kinds of aluminum trailers in a variety of deck sizes to fit your competition car. Here the trailers will all carry several thousand pounds more than most of us need. Mine has an 18 foot deck and weighs God knows what. I transported a specMiata on it. Twenty years ago I towed a Formula V solo car on a homebuilt trailer behind a Pontiac 6000. Trailer had tandem wheels (they do help stability) and was made from 2X2 tubing with no suspension. I never weighed it ,but it couldn't have been very heavy. You could bop along at 80 MPH easily. Tow car only had 130 HP. It would have been a little better had I put brakes on one axle, but it wasn't nerve racking without them. My current trailer is nerve racking when the brakes don't work and I pull it with an Astro van. I think a mini-van would work just fine with a light trailer and competition vehicle. And brakes.

Feedyurhed wrote: I think a hot van is cool. I don't see why Mazda doesn't offer the Mazda 5 with the MS3 drivetrain as the platform is the same. I would be all over that and it would essentially be in a class by itself. In the states anyway.

Didn't CandD do just that awhile back? IIRC, Mazda even provided both vehicles for the project.

The_Jed wrote: I have found myself lusting after a diesel Excursion as of late.

We have a friend with one. Besides a chip, it is completely stock. 24mpg on the highway, with an extra 100hp and 200 ft/lbs of torque.

That project sounds awesome.

And for the record, people that buy Ford F350 diesel duallies to tow small-ass trailers around are pretty silly. Station wagons and especially minivans are perfectly capable of towing single-car trailers.

Jay wrote: This is totally 100% normal in these parts. No one would even blink and you definitely wouldn't get pulled over.

You would certainly get pulled over pulling a stunt like this where I live.

Just by my calibrated eyeball, that is exceeding the tow capacity of the car.

Never mind what happens when that thing gets some sway going.

Towing with "just enough" is too stressful, life is too short.

Shawn

Normal in Oz also...^

I used my 90 Commodore (old skool G8) to tow my RX3 on a heavy trailer for years.

However I tow with my 94 E150 and it has been to the Mitty with my trailer and Challenger on it from Ohio, picked up 2 Camaros, 4 Triumph Stags (3750lb@) a Ranchero, and rescued my company cars as needed, Lincoln Town Cars, and even towed a Suburban 80 miles. Never had an issue and my trailer weighs 2800lb empty. 180K on her and she did a 450 mile tow yesterday without a problem.

Love the E series

Appleseed wrote: Mini vans suck. FWD sucks. But this is full of win.

DIE!!

People get licensed to overload the big trucks waaay more than we want to load normal sized cars. Drive reasonably and think ahead and it will be fine.

daytonaer wrote: My uncle bought the re-designed oddisy when new, it had that fancy "v-tech" v6 and would put out 200-210 hp or so(don't remember exactly) when you would run high test, as per owners manual. Should be fun with a blower. This is my tow rig/parts hauler. Unfortunately It needs oil-drains to be re engineered and I have no motivation for it now. Towing with a rwd full frame vehicle is too easy.

I towed my new neon with my caravan the other day but i don't think i'd recommend it lol

Ian F wrote: ....I'd be interested in a debate about single axle vs. dual axle trailers.....

Here in New Jersey (as with many states) a car trailer must have four wheels and brakes (electric or surge).

This may not be true in other states, but if you're towing out-of-state (as I do most of time), be sure your rig will pass the local rules.

MrJoshua wrote: ... think ahead and it will be fine.

If I were the only person on the road, that would be a good philosophy.

I'd dig a Safari/Astro LS conversion. RWD, pretty good economy etc. I don't remember what they're like inside- probably have to do a full resto by now. Or if there was some way to shoehorn a diesel in there it'd be great.

I have a buddy who picked up an excursion (diesel) and claims 24 mpg highway with no tow. That's just silly.

Brust wrote: I'd dig a Safari/Astro LS conversion. RWD, pretty good economy etc. I don't remember what they're like inside- probably have to do a full resto by now. Or if there was some way to shoehorn a diesel in there it'd be great.

There's loads of room behind the front seats...

Twin_Cam wrote: That project sounds awesome. And for the record, people that buy Ford F350 diesel duallies to tow small-ass trailers around are pretty silly. Station wagons and especially minivans are perfectly capable of towing single-car trailers.

I wouldn't judge based on what you see on the road unless you actually know the person. I have a 1 ton diesel dually and have towed trailers as small 5x8 trailer with dirtbikes on it, but normally it has a dual axle gooseneck car hauler attached to it. I usually tow my small trailer with a Jeep Cherokee, but when it's down for modifications the Dodge pulls the small stuff.

I'm also of the bigger is better for tow rigs. It's nice to have the piece of mind and used diesel trucks/vans can be reasonable priced and get good mileage. I've towed cars with my Cherokee before, I've also towed with compact, 1/2 ton, 3/4 ton, and 1 ton trucks. I've also lost a trailer tire on a dual axle trailer, which is much less dramatic than if it were only one axle.

I'll keep my 1 ton for the heavy stuff, but I have to admit an old school wagon with a tow package sure would make a killer looking tow rig....and should be very capable.

how about a twin turbo Crown Vic with a truck transmission and transfercase?

1. its full frame
2. its 4WD
3. P71's rock!