I think there is more to the story.
Whether it was CTS's manufacturing problem, Toyota's design problem, or something else all together we may never know.
This seems strange. Good for the government, I mean GM I guess.
I think there is more to the story.
Whether it was CTS's manufacturing problem, Toyota's design problem, or something else all together we may never know.
This seems strange. Good for the government, I mean GM I guess.
93celicaGT2 wrote:alfadriver wrote: It seems as if people keep trying to find excuses for Toyota, in the end, if CTS is making the part exactly to print, then the fault is purely with Toyota. Knowing how Toyota controls their suppliers, I would harbor a guess that CTS makes the part TO PRINT. Hopefully, they can get through this without any other people getting hurt- that's a horrible ending to a problem. EricWouldn't Denso be making the same parts to print? I'm not defending Toyota, i don't care whatsoever about their current line up, or if they continue to sell. But why would Toyota give a different print to Denso than they did to CTS? There's no logical reason for that. Someone screwed up, and if Denso is making the parts that aren't faulty, then that kindof points to CTS.
Yes, that's partially my point (and a very good question, BTW). Remember, the Lexus models which are built in Japan are blaming the floor mat for the problem, and I suspect that there's a lot more to it.
Based on the latest information, Toyota is doing everything they can to demonstrate that the issue is purely a US issue, since the NTHSA is the one who told them to stop production- only the US can force vehicle to not be sold for issues like this. If the rest of Toyota's ETC cars have a similar problem worldwide, it will crush their sales, so they are doing everything they can to keep the suspension within the US.
This may be pointing toward a very, very deep Toyota problem- the mats are being blamed to keep production and sales going world wide, CTS is being blamed to localize the problem to US cars. But it's fairly obvious that both sides of the Pacific are having throttle problems.
Eric
we are lucky that this issue does not affect toyotas current performance models.
oh...wait...
jrw1621 wrote: we are lucy that this issue does not affect toyotas current performance models. oh...wait...
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!
93celicaGT2 wrote:Slyp_Dawg wrote: yet another reason for me not to buy 99.9% of the cars available on the new market. numb handling that might just have the potential to put you to sleep, no thank you, I'll stick with my older, simpler cars pleaseIf we keep it simple, you and i can be stuck with 90s and earlier cars. Just the way i like it!
hey, I'm not opposed to brand new, obscenely simple cars, either, like the Elise/Exige or a new Caterham or a Molser or even a RCR Superlight Coupe, as vastly impractical as they are for anything except track duties. just because Y2K has come and gone doesn't mean that there aren't any simple cars left
4cylndrfury wrote:Slyp_Dawg wrote: I'll stick with my older, simpler cars pleaseYES x a bazillion Throttle cable? Check Real steering shaft and power assist? Check Tape deck in the dash? Check Stupid nanny/cost savers? Zilch reasonably simple end of the 20th century cars? priceless Brought to you by the era that brought you video games, pearl jam, and ...well me!
sounds like a good plan
Datsun1500 wrote: Typical reporting by the media, 1/2 of the facts. It is an issue with an arm on the pedal itself, nothing electronic. The affected models are made with 2 types of pedals (CTS and Denso). The ones with CTS pedals have the issue, made at the USA plants. None of the ones made in Japan have CTS pedals, about 50% of the ones made here do. The Dealer needs to go through the inventory and see which ones of the affected models he has in stock has the CTS pedal, and can not sell them. If the car has the Denso pedal it is OK to sell even if it is one of the 8 "no sell" models. None of the hybrids have the CTS pedal The smart Dealer will market it as only a limited number of these vehicles are able to be sold and be OK. It's still going to hurt...
This doesn't seem to square with the reports that the NHTSA forced the "sale stop" because there was not a proven fix for the issue... wouldn't they just be able to replace all of the "CTS" gas pedals?
Vigo wrote: Man ive had sticky throttle problems on my minivan ever since i got it, because i was too lazy to change the throttle body (crunchy shaft bushings) for one of the other ones i had lying around But family cars these days come with way too much power for the average person who will go into freakout mode and kill themselves when their Avalon hits WOT because they've never driven a 14 second car before. After all, if its good enough for the Lotus Evora, its good enough to kill grandma.
Had this problem on the g/f's GMC Jimmy...the throttle plate was sticking on the TB. off-idle acceleration was jerky. Coincidentally, the idle speed would bounce around between 500 and 900 rpm. Turns out the idle speed stop screw on the TB was adjusted too low. The throttle plate would then stick, and the idle would "hunt" as airflow was too restricted. I cranked the screw up a half turn, the sticking disappeared and idle is now constant at 600RPM. Apparently, this is a somewhat common problem on GM trucks.
I also agree with you WRT the "too much power" issue. I've commuted in Corvairs, early civics, six-banger pickups..pretty much any and every low-power vehicle out there. And for most of my driving, they're perfectly adequate. NOBODY needs even 150hp in their Camry. Hell, even in my King of Bad Acceleration Mercedes Benz 240D, I find I can still merge and keep up with traffic with a seemingly paltry 68 horsepower dragging around 3500 pounds worth of car and driver and passenger. In the "bad ole days", it wasn't uncommon for cars to have 25 or even more lbs of mass per horsepower- a number that would be laughed at today. 0-60 times of 10 seconds were common- and perfectly acceptable. 0-60 is pointless on the highway, anyway, as is a top speed of over 85 or so.
I know the above paragraph will probably go over like a lead balloon on a car enthusiast site such as this- but rest assured, I love me some hi-po engines and cars. I just think, as mentioned before, its somewhat irresponsible to have nearly every modern car be a veritable road rocket.
/end threadjack
I agree 100% on the "too much power" for the sheeple. My wife drives a 2000 Hyundai Accent 1.5. Thing made 92hp new, has 172k miles on it and is slow as balls attatched to a dead turtle. True story there. But she is always talking about some "tard" that couldn't get up to merging speed on the highway ins some 250hp [insert car make here]. Folks... it ain't the car. It's the loose nut behind the wheel.
I heard this afternoon that the offending part was manufactured in Mississauga (city right next to Toronto), so it's probably safe to blame Canada.
Bobzilla wrote: I agree 100% on the "too much power" for the sheeple. My wife drives a 2000 Hyundai Accent 1.5. Thing made 92hp new, has 172k miles on it and is slow as balls attatched to a dead turtle. True story there. But she is always talking about some "tard" that couldn't get up to merging speed on the highway ins some 250hp [insert car make here]. Folks... it ain't the car. It's the loose nut behind the wheel.
Exactly. Is it REALLY necessary for the new Camry to have a 2grfe?
ignorant wrote: They atleast confront their problems head on... but it does seem like they are taking a page from Skeletor's play book.
With a federal gun to their head?
alfadriver wrote:ignorant wrote:Like I posted before, if you are going to be so lame to condemn American car makers, then be so brave to post where your work, so that we can all avoid buying your stuff for really poor reasons. this kind of lame attack sickens me. You think you "know" toyota, yet, it's pretty clear that your pre-concieved notion is not quite right either. These cars were engineered in Japan, as were the Lexus cars that are having problems. Just because the parts may have been sourced in the US does not make them inherently poor. Again, if you REALLY believe that, have the guts to tell us where you work, so we can stop buying it for no good reason. Eric Proud engineer of an American Car Company.Appleseed wrote: Wait, did GM change it's name to Toyota?naaa gm wouldn't take these steps.. They'd just deny everything..I think the company grew too fast and got away from their core principles. I'll bet somewhere in toyota purchasing someone got a big pat on the back for saving money on some electronics and now that guy is sucking wind hard. I used to work in the auto industry and part of my job was giving the supplier quality engineers the evidence they needed to beat up suppliers. I can't recall how many times I've heard a supplier tell me that I could have better quality product if I paid for it like toyota. They then would relay a story about how toyota would pay extra dollars for absolutely no defects cosemetic or otherwise. While we.. Got what we paid for... I wonder If i can buy my 86 yota pickup back.. also did you notice they only suspended production at their american plants? Luckily my Rav4 was made in Japan...
I used to work for cummins and I sold to DCX.
Eric, where do you work?
93celicaGT2 wrote: Eric, where do you work?
He works for ford.
I now work in an industry where failures are not accepted and process and product deviations are not issued to machining and assembly. I remember back in the day issuing 30 product deviations every month.... Ugh!!!!!!!!!!!!
I now make engines for..
When you build military, there is no "acceptable failure limit" or "fix as fail" dispositions on issues.
ignorant wrote: When you build military, there is no "acceptable failure limit" or "fix as fail" dispositions on issues.
As opposed to car forums where posting fails are frequent and expected!
kreb wrote:ignorant wrote: When you build military, there is no "acceptable failure limit" or "fix as fail" dispositions on issues.As opposed to car forums where posting fails are frequent and expected!
ROFLMAO! I bet if I sold beer-proof screen covers I'd make a mint on here alone!
ignorant wrote:93celicaGT2 wrote: Eric, where do you work?He works for ford. I now work in an industry where failures are not accepted and process and product deviations are not issued to machining and assembly. I remember back in the day issuing 30 product deviations every month.... Ugh!!!!!!!!!!!! I now make engines for..
Therefore, when we see these planes crashing, we can blame you guys, since you are inherently poor at engineering, being an American, and all, right? And we can blame you for the obnoxious cost, since it's the high costs, just because you are American, right?
Or did you not see how incredibly insulting your note was? Including to yourself. Not that I want to be sensitive, but to think that all the blame lies in the Americaness of the management or enginners or source of the parts is terrible.
And, yes, I work for Ford, so read some of my comments for possible bias.
E-
Buzz Killington wrote: somewhere audi is laughing its ass off.
If I was really rich I'd be combing CL for scared owners selling Toyotas cheap, set them aside, wait for the solution, then sell each at a profit. This is a bit like Audi, though there I recall the problem didn't actually exist - here it does.
alfadriver wrote:rant, rant, rant... ...And, yes, I work for Ford, so read some of my comments for possible bias
I've owned cars of many makes, Toyota, Nissan, Datsun, Ford, and GM. I will never buy another GM product. It isn't someone elses money that went to fixing these domestics, it was mine, so it hardly matters when someone goes on and on about how great they are - I know better.
I will buy another Toyota though. No car maker is perfect, and to pull out the rope, torches, and baseball bats because they stumble is a bit, um, immature. The ranting only furthers the dumb "us vs. them" thing. When domestic makes stop having page after page of negative marks in Consumer Reports reviews, then we can talk.
That said, the Ford I had proved to me that it's reliable enough that I may buy another.
kb58 wrote:alfadriver wrote:rant, rant, rant... ...And, yes, I work for Ford, so read some of my comments for possible biasI've owned cars of many makes, Toyota, Nissan, Datsun, Ford, and GM. I will never buy another GM product. It isn't someone elses money that went to fixing these domestics, it was mine, so it hardly matters when someone goes on and on about how great they are - I know better. I will buy another Toyota though. No car maker is perfect, and to pull out the rope, torches, and baseball bats because they stumble is a bit, um, immature. The ranting only furthers the dumb "us vs. them" thing. When domestic makes stop having page after page of negative marks in Consumer Reports reviews, then we can talk. That said, the Ford I had proved to me that it's reliable enough that I may buy another.
Confused much?
Buzz Killington wrote: somewhere audi is laughing its ass off.
you bet!
Recall has been extended to China and Europe. http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20100128/bs_nm/us_toyota_recall
hahahahahahahahahaha
can you say "devastating"???
China and europe must get all their subcomponents from america too...american bastards and their crappy everything-they-make
/sardy-har-harcasm
alfadriver wrote: Therefore, when we see these planes crashing, we can blame you guys, since you are inherently poor at engineering, being an American, and all, right? And we can blame you for the obnoxious cost, since it's the high costs, just because you are American, right? Or did you not see how incredibly insulting your note was? Including to yourself. Not that I want to be sensitive, but to think that all the blame lies in the Americaness of the management or enginners or source of the parts is terrible. And, yes, I work for Ford, so read some of my comments for possible bias.
ugh....
You could take the literal interpretation of what I wrote or you could take it to mean that the company has grown too fast and is now full of inexperienced people. In 2005 and 06 Toyota tossed an offer at nearly anyone graduating from my old school with an ME degree and SAE baja/forumula experience...
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