Let's say you had $30K to spend on a track/daily car. Would you buy a more expensive car like a C5 Vette, or buy something cheaper like a Miata or FRS and upgrade everything? I feel like the Vette would be better for daily driving and better on the track too, but the cheaper cars are more fun (if you like working on cars) and might be cheaper in the long run due to cheap parts and maintenance.
I have tracked Miatas (Spec and standard), MR2, Elise, S2000, and Atoms. What I have found is the price of the entry, is just that, the first price. Then you have consumeables. I know all about the "driving slow car fast" mantra etc, and they are cheaper on parts and maintenance.
But once you drive a high HP car daily/track (just my opinion), it is hard to go back to a "momentum car." Of course having more than one toy allows you to have both.
I am no GM fanboi, but if I were to have a Vette or FRS/Miata, I would start with the Vette.
Good luck.
Vettes: set of brake pads and tires after 2-3 weekends. Every c5 customer to come through my shop has had this revyrring expense and timetable.
Wheel bearings (front) every 36-48 hours on track is very very common
Cheap car with mods. Then you have money to spend in repairs. Which you will need. Plus, unless you're loaded, you WILL be under the hood.
also: underdog status. No one cares when they get passed by a six figure car. Everyone cares when they get passed by a Miata in their 6 figure machine.
What is your goal? Are you chasing lap times or just want to have fun? I love, love, love my FR-S but to make it as fast as a bone stock C5 is going to require a crap ton of money and work and there's a good chance it will be an unreliable time bomb when done.
For fun and low costs - miata, 86
For lap times - C5
We just happen to have both ends of that spectrum. Here's some numbers:
Modded NA Miata (~135whp), and a stock ZL1 Camaro (more than $30k, but bear with me).
Tires: I'll use RE71R for both for comparison... Miata $600/set. Camaro $1800/set. My guess is that a set will last at least twice as long on the Miata, but I don't have enough track time on the Camaro yet to say for sure.
Brake pads are about a wash (I have big Wilwoods on the Miata), but the Miata set will last a lot longer.
The Miata uses about 1/2 the fuel per track mile.
Camaro costs ~$400/track weekend for HPDE insurance. If I ever wad up the Miata, I have a spare chassis that I bought for $500 that cost me $0 after selling some parts off it.
Camaro oil change is $100+, Miata is ~$30. Camaro will also require more frequent trans and diff fluid changes which aren't cheap.
Obviously, the Camaro is MUCH faster around a track. It's also MUCH more expensive to track than our Miata.
Both my wife and I think the Miata is more fun to drive on the track. YMMV.
That said, if I were looking for a DD I could track without having to mod it, in your price range I would take a hard look at a Gen 6 ('16 up) SS 1LE Camaro. They should be coming into your price range, and you can't buy more performance for that money. It's already equipped for the track from the factory, in every respect (suspension, brakes, cooling, etc.), to the point that the GM factory warranty covers track use. It's still going to be expensive to track (a set of 305 square RE71Rs is still $1760), but should be fast and reliable. And you get a modern car with all the sophistication and gadgetry.
Anything old/cheap enough to mod for track use is going to suck as a daily.
I think this also depends on your experience/skill level and your goal. If you're a beginner, I think a momentum car would teach you a lot and if you're trying to get better as a driver. If you've been tracking for 15 years then a Miata might no longer be very exciting, even if you're able to wringing out the last 0.1 second. From the nature of the question it seems like you might lean more toward the former group, but I don't want to assume.
So everything mentioned above is spot on (consummables, etc.), but if you just want to have the most amount of fun without necessarily improving as a driver (no judgment), then a C5 might be worth the ticket. If you're trying to be the best driver you can be, I think a slower car is a much better ticket. So you have to figure out the variables that matter to you in terms of your goals, budget, risk tolerance, etc.
For what it's worth, I have a FRS with bushings/struts/springs, wheels/tires, and header/tune. It's plenty fast around the track. I've passed my fair share of vettes (mostly at the Vette day at NCM of all places!) that are much faster cars but not so once you add their driver.
Personally, I would be between a camaro SS under warrenty OR an e46/e90 m3 with 12-16k leftover to prep and run. Seems like a great sweet spot for speed and value along with reliability as long as properly prepped.
Ninja edit, or get a cheap c7 and run laps around most else.
Ninja edit #2: Since I prefer hiding my 30k dollar racecar by constantly shoving 1500 dollars into a project, I mashed all options and shove corvette power into an e36 racecar.
In reply to Rodan :
Very helpful assessment. Thank you.
I like Rodan have both ends of the spectrum with my two race cars and like him I find the slower car is more fun; it's cheap to run and always trouble free.
Naturally I'd go for a cheaper car with some mods to make it more entertaining; things like brakes, suspension and perhaps a low boost supercharger or turbo charger.
I'd buy something track ready and as inexpensive to buy/run and spend the rest on instruction and events.
Just me though.
Also depends on what tracks you intend on running at - are they short and small with tight turns, or big with long straights and sweeping corners.
How often are you going to hit the track? If it's only once or twice a year, how much do you want to "mod" a car and still have to DD it? Personally, I'm too old for that E36 M3. I don't want a car that'll be obnoxious to drive on the street every day just so I can run a handful of HPDE. I'd rather go with the more expensive and nice DD that can do a track day or two.
They say you shouldn't bring a car to the track that you can't afford to leave there. I think that's pretty good advice, so to me "track car" and "daily driver" are mutually exclusive terms. $30k will get you a well-prepped Miata, a trailer and a really clean F-150 to tow it to the track with.
ShinnyGroove said:They say you shouldn't bring a car to the track that you can't afford to leave there. I think that's pretty good advice, so to me "track car" and "daily driver" are mutually exclusive terms. $30k will get you a well-prepped Miata, a trailer and a really clean F-150 to tow it to the track with.
After nearly 40 years of screwing around with cars, I often wish I could go back and give my 20 year old self this advice.
Another issue that hasn't come up yet in this thread is safety. While modern cars are pretty incredible safety-wise, I'll admit I'm a little uncomfortable with just a 3 point belt and airbags with the speeds our ZL1 is capable of on track. And a track car safety system with proper seats, harness, cage and fire system really is not appropriate on the street. Each has their place, and it's one more reason a dual-purpose car has serious drawbacks.
I started tracking a CTS-V Wagon. It was great. And expensive. And fast. From there I moved to a Civic and was much happier. I now bounce between an Accord and a Miata. Consumables, the cost to write off the car, and safety are all reasons for going the way I have.
The good thing that came out of the Cadillac was me quickly recognizing that modifying the car to go faster was dumb. It was WAY more capable than me. In fact, every car I've driven on track since then has been way more capable than me, but the Cadillac hit me in the face with it. This has kept me from chasing speed (to much) with my track cars and instead modifying them lightly to become teaching/learning tools. It's served me well.
In reply to StormFalcon32 :
This sounds like you're new to track driving? Get a Miata. After you can turn very consistently good lap times in it, put a supercharger on it + other mods, or, sell it and get something a bit faster, like an e36 M3, or a lot faster, like a C5 or a 996 911.
In reply to mazdeuce - Seth :
That was my experience with the C5Z. The car is insane, but it wasn't as much fun for me because I'm more of a slow car fast kind of driver.
On the motocross track I ride a 125 in a field of 450 4 strokes and I think I'm having more fun than anybody.
In reply to StormFalcon32 :
It depends on your skills. If you can make a slow car fast then you can race a fast car cheaply. But if you just jump in with a fast car and try to learn with that you'll be slow and spend a lot of money trying to learn.
I spent some time behind the wheel of an MX-5 playboy cup NC Miata and it was really really good. 200hp, light weight, very rigid cage, fully adjustable shocks. I'm betting you could buy a used one of those and race it for pretty cheap compared to an ss 1le Camaro. And you'd be shocked at the lap times a competent driver (not me) could turn in it.
Rodan said:But, since I'm an enabler...
6k mile 2018 Camaro SS 1LE $29499
Wrong color but a beauty and a great deal !
In reply to dculberson :
IMHO the NC is the 'new Answer'.
A track candidate can be had for about the same money as a clean NA now, and it's an excellent chassis. Springs, shocks, sways, wheels & tires (can fit 255 rubber) and brake pads and it will be a very reliable and surprisingly quick HPDE car.
A 2.5 swap is cheap and easy, and with cams can approach 200whp. Stripped down, they're really not any heavier than an NB, and aftermarket race hardtops are now available at reasonable prices.
If I weren't already neck deep in our NA, I would definitely be building an NC.
In reply to Rodan :
I do believe you're on to something.
One last thing to consider. If you have a cheap car, you can and will drive it much harder without worry getting the most out of it and learning as much as possible. If you are making payments on something, have it financed and need it to get the work the next day, you will drive it accordingly, get less out of the car and learn less.
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