Track Car Ideas to Replace a Miata

Hi All,

I currently have a fairly stock '94 Miata (Star Specs, sway bars, frame rails/butterfly brace, and roll bar) in perfect condition. I have one season under my belt, and it's been a blast to drive. I planned to add forced induction (~200whp) and suspension for next season, but I'm having second thoughts after learning more about cooling problems associated with forced induction Miata track cars.

I could go a few different ways:

1. Keep the Miata. Add turbo or rotrex supercharger and go nuts with cooling. My concern here is reliability and that I'll never recoup the cost.

2. New track car. A few that come to mind are 986 Boxster S or C5 Corvette. I generally prefer the Boxster, but I think a C5 makes more sense in terms of reliability, performance, and aftermarket. My local tracks (Brainerd and Road America) are high-speed, so the extra power would be nice as well. I'd love to hear other track car ideas as well.

Cost-wise, I realize option 1 is going to be less up front, but money spent on modifications ultimately goes down the toilet. I'd be able to sell a Boxster or C5 for close to what I buy it for.

I travel for work (Mon-Thurs every week) and my hours are crazy, so I'd like to keep wrenching time to a minimum. I want to be able to drive to the track, have a blast, and then drive home. The Miata served that purpose this summer amazingly well, but I'd like more power.

S2000? 240hp and more or less the same basic idea as the Miata. It's what I wanna upgrade to from my 1990 Miata.

+1 for S2k or C5. The C5 is a much better deal in performance-for-money but it's also much heavier on consumables.

1b) Keep Miata, and exocet

I'd say S2K plus tires/pads and call it a day.

I vote C5 - although you'll need to do some tranny cooling and accusump iirc

S2000 would be my choice because it's like a Miata on steroids (OK, maybe just good supplements, protein shakes, and a rigorous gym routine ), it is not maintenance-intensive, and consumables will be cheaper than a C5 (especially tires)

amg_rx7 wrote: I vote C5 - although you'll need to do some tranny cooling and accusump iirc

In my very preliminary C5 research, I found the same issues. I think transmission cooling may only be an issue for automatics. Does anyone know if that's true?

z31maniac wrote: I'd say S2K plus tires/pads and call it a day.

I do really like S2000s. I wanted one when I was looking for my Miata but couldn't justify the price at the time. I'll definitely add it to my list. My only reservations are twitchy handling and the horsepower ceiling is fairly low. I'm sure I'd be pleased with the power at the beginning, but it's fun to have room to grow.

captdownshift wrote: 1b) Keep Miata, and exocet

I'm tempted by this option, but I currently don't have dedicated garage space for it. I might be moving next spring though, in which case this becomes a viable option

All good suggestions and you'll enjoy any of them.

I'll just add that I've got a '92 Miata with an old Greddy turbo on it. Running around 9psi. I'm the 3rd owner to enjoy the car with the turbo on it, and all 3 of us have tracked the car hard. 161k miles on it.

I have no problems with cooling. Or perhaps I'm blissfully unaware of any issues. But regardless, I haven't had any cooling related problems. The only cooling upgrade I have is the parallel fan mod. No problems at VIR in the summer.

All that said, if you can afford it, I vote for the C5, followed by the S2K. A turbo can often produce rather peaky power. A driver error compounded with the boost rolling in nearly bit me mid-corner on my last track day. I gathered it up, but there was a pucker moment.

Do some reading about the IMS bearing failures with the Boxster.

And be mindful that with forced induction on a Miata, you'll likely need to go the MegaSquirt route. It's no doubt a great system, but you'll spend fair amount of time fiddling with the tuning to get it right.

You can handle the early gen "twitchiness" with a toe kit in the rear.

But dead reliable, quick, great handling. As mentioned, it's basically a better Miata with more expensive tires.

It's what I'd go for after ditching my last miata track rat.

S2k. Really fun on the track. Slightly twitchier than the miatas ive driven but ymmv.

option 1.5: Have Flyin' Miata build your car with a LSx under the hood. Cooling problem is solved as part of the engine swap. Lighter and potentially faster than a C5. Best of both worlds.

Price could be similar to buying a decent C5. Check out their site and bug them about options for swapping your car (or buying one already ready to go and selling yours off).

Swap the miata to run a K-series Honda engine? S2000 power with the sweet mazda chassis.

http://www.kmiata.com/

For the cost they mention on the website plus whatever you can get for the Miata, you can buy an S2k ...

I'll assume by the question we are talking about 1 season of DE/Track days. How many days of experience are we taking about here? 3? 5? 60? A C5 or S2000 is a fantastic car but you will get owned by guys in the car you are selling if you jump into the deep end too soon.

If I were you I'd put another year on the Miata with a race suspension and real race tires. Put the money you save into the only thing that transfers to every car you drive (you). I know it sounds cliche but you have a reliable, efficient, light car that does everything you ask of it except go fast. I hate those slow ass things myself... but I've had 15+ years of 60 days a year to hate on them. In the beginning it was because the berkeleyers in the SM cars were passing me in my M3. It took a while to hate on them for holding me up.

Giant Purple Snorklewacker wrote: I'll assume by the question we are talking about 1 season of DE/Track days. How many days of experience are we taking about here? 3? 5? 60? A C5 or S2000 is a fantastic car but you will get owned by guys in the car you are selling if you jump into the deep end too soon. If I were you I'd put another year on the Miata with a race suspension and real race tires. Put the money you save into the only thing that transfers to every car you drive (you). I know it sounds cliche but you have a reliable, efficient, light car that does everything you ask of it except go fast. I hate those slow ass things myself... but I've had 15+ years of 60 days a year to hate on them. In the beginning it was because the berkeleyers in the SM cars were passing me in my M3. It took a while to hate on them for holding me up.

You are correct - I meant 1 season of track days in the Miata, which for me was 6 events I think. Prior to that I have roughly the same amount of experience in other cars and driving schools. At the end of this year I felt like I was getting to the point of extracting most of what I could from the car. The fastest spec Miata time I can find posted for Brainerd (BIR) is 1:58 and my fastest was 2:02 on street tires, stock suspension, and no weight reduction.

Honestly, I'll probably end up doing another season with a better suspension setup, but it's fun to think about the next car. Is there any particular reason you suggest using R-compound tires? Certainly I'll be faster around the track, but is there really that much more learning or fun to be had with more grip?

R comps will be a big difference.

Do you have any experience tracking a C5? It is a big jump from a Miata. Exponentially more speed. It is a car that can catch you out with bad things happening really fast if you are not an experienced driver with that kind of car. Not that you shouldn't get one I just have reservation about recommending one to some one that is,stepping out if a mildly modified Miata driven on street tires.

What about a BMW or a modern Nissan 350 or 370z?

First track days are about having fun and driving a car you enjoy. I've been fortunate enough to race or drive everything from fast single seaters to 700HP Vipers to my gutless little Datsun as well as a ton of seat time in Miatas of all types and I will say what I say to people all the time. A Miata is the most fun car you will ever drive......keep the Miata. A Spec Miata makes around 110-115 whp but unburdened by a rule set a normally aspirated streetable Miata should be able to manage 140-150 whp, pair that with some suspension mods and you should be able to go a few seconds a lap faster than a Spec Miata, which will likely be 7-8 seconds a lap faster than you are going now.

Tom

Outside of the obvious exceptions, I've always come back to the "car you already own".

That mindset plus the fact that I'm a big underdog fan made me build Samurai when everyone else had Jeeps or fullsize trucks.

I say keep the Miata and make gradual, real, consistent improvements in the car and yourself and enjoy being faster around the track than many much more expensive cars.

In reply to Nitroracer:

The s2k runs the F20C not a k series engine. Just saying

Gieb wrote: Is there any particular reason you suggest using R-compound tires? Certainly I'll be faster around the track, but is there really that much more learning or fun to be had with more grip?

Yes. Because they behave differently. They obviously grip more - but they also drive differently on and beyond the limit of grip. Street tires are great for learning because of the forgiveness they offer but once you are using them to their limits - you still haven't reached your limit yet. You need better tools to expand it. Butter knife vs Scalpel.

Not that there is anything wrong with getting a faster car... it is just a different way to expand the limit of the tool so you can grow into it. It is just that you haven't exploited what you have so there isn't any reason to move on yet unless you just feel like it. Being able to oversteer out of a corner with just the right pedal has it's merit for sure.

Nitroracer wrote: Swap the miata to run a K-series Honda engine? S2000 power with the sweet mazda chassis. http://www.kmiata.com/

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Going from full tread RA1's to Hoorier SM6's on lighter wider wheels shaved around 3 seconds off of my time at BIR. The grip withe the r comps really made a huge difference in the infield, basically I could be at flat out through most of the track. I have the 1.6 and my fastest lap was 1:59 at BIR on the short course.There were a few S2000s on track with me this summer and I was able to keep up and pass them, but they had street tires on. There is a local SM driver that instructs of the BIR school and she said her times are around 1:49 in her 1.6 SM car.

I am going to put a newer 1.8 in my car this winter. I am hoping with a good tune and and a few other mods I will be at 140whp. This will be a 40% increase in power, I am guessing I should be in the lower 1:50's on the short course.

I have had the same thoughts you, at what point to stop putting money in to a lower HP car. But I look at the total cost to run, wheels, tries, brakes and fuel. A good friend of mine made the jump from a lighter car to a heavier faster car, he said consumables budget almost tripled. I would rather put the money toward more track days.

I have worked at really learning to drive the car at 10/10th before adding more power. It has been passing the higher HP car where you can tell the money has going to the car and not the driver.

Porsche, not the GRM answer, but as the old saying goes, you race a Porsche because they don't break and in the long run cost you less.

C5 is a brute though.

Keep the miata, do a coolant reroute with aluminum radiator and slap a turbo on with r comps. Youll find out the best miata replacement is miata but with more powah!