Warning: Chesrown Chevrolet and Buying a Car on eBay

In reply to Bababooey: Unfortunately, dealerships are going to state legislators so they can make crappy laws about how they need to have dealers instead of selling straight to customers.

Dear Mr. Vestrand (DaveV a.k.a. gt5racer)-

I wanted to take the time to write to you and let you know that I sincerely apologize for your negative experience with my dealership and eBay. I mean it when I say that I never want to see situations like this go down the way they did. Unfortunately, things like this happen far too often and I feel the need to explain with more detail from my end.

I am the owner of Chesrown Chevrolet Buick GMC in Delaware Ohio, which is a relatively large dealership that sells about 300 cars per month, 180 of which are used. We have been in business for over 50 years and I am the third generation owner. My entire career has literally been devoted to trying to provide the most transparent and customer-centric process and experience possible. I care very much about my customers and my employees. We truly try to do the right thing in every situation possible. Everyone knows that for every experience, good or bad, there are always two sides to the story.

I hope you don't mind me if I share a few more details about this transaction. I was thrilled to see your winning bid come across my eBay mobile app at the end of this particular auction. It was about 7 pm and I was driving home. I immediately called my Sales manager to verify that the Mini was still available. He said it was in fact available, BUT one of our salesmen had an appointment scheduled for 10 AM the next morning. Not only that, but the same customers had already agreed on a negotiated out the door price to which they would be paying cash.

I told my Sales Manager that we had sold it on eBay and to hold the keys until I reached the winning bidder. He would have first shot at it. Then here's where things went South. Ebay provided me all of Mr. Vestrands (gt5racer) contact info including phone number and address. I called the number provided and it was in fact a bad number. That is when I decided I would email you making you aware of the situation and requesting a call back as soon as possible. In fact, I sent 2 emails personally. The first at 7:47pm (less than an hour after the auction ended). This is copied and pasted directly from my sent mail in ebay:

"Dear gt5racer,

Thanks you for your business. You bought a nice vehicle. You will be very happy with it.

Please provide me with a good phone number as soon as possible so we can finalize the details.

There is another appointment on this vehicle tomorrow morning so it is imperative that we touch base soon.

Thank you!"

Between myself and the salesperson I had involved, we emailed 2 more times each. I sincerely hoped that you would call prior to this other appointment arriving so I would have time to tell them not to come. Ironically, we didn't actually hear from you until 10:40 am when the customers who had already negotiated a final price, and lived locally had just pulled out on their test drive.

Now this is where I feel the need to explain things. I have my used car inventory merchandised, with specific details, descriptions and images on over 20 automotive websites (Autotrader, Cars.com, CarGurus, etc etc.) There is a lot of activity generated from these sites, from all over the country. I also have 15 different salespeople selling from the same inventory.

Customers from far and wide inquire, negotiate, request more info, and sometimes purchase vehicles from us. Over the years I have seen it all. I have good, bad and downright shocking stories about selling cars.

Often times people characterize dealerships as sleazy, dishonest, and taking advantage of anyone and everyone that comes on our premises. The truth is that people in my industry get lied to more in a months worth of work than most will see in a lifetime. And I happen to cater to one of the finest markets located in one of the fastest growing, highest income counties in the midwest.

When I couldn't get a hold of you, it started to remind me of the MANY transactions I had experienced on ebay before where my winning bidder wanted nothing to do with buying the car that they had bid on. For example, THIS eBAY LISTING just ended earlier this week and sadly, the winning bidder cannot be contacted. It's safe to assume that after several days of trying to get a hold of this customer, I have no deal. eBay can't force anyone to actually purchase anything. I have had more winning transactions fall through than have actually been successful. Unless any money changes hands, all you have with a winning bid as an ebay seller is a nifty little sign.

My point is that there are a lot of moving parts in a dealership with a team of salespeople trying to sell the same inventory cars. And on a good day, lots of customers trying to buy the same cars. There is only one unique version of each used car on the lot and only one person can own each of them at a time. Every successful used car dealer who uses eBay has had this same issue occur in their stores too. A great example of an ebay based conflict is when a successful auction ends while other customers are literally on an overnight test drive. Who’s car is it then? There are just so many ways this same scenario can be played out. In the end, someone always gets hurt.

I wanted to sell the car to you...Badly. I wanted to have a successful ebay transaction with you. I don't want to upset customers. I just want to sell cars, the right way.

I'll be the first to admit that I may have not done the right thing. But I had to make a choice. I am put in this position more than most people would like to be but our business takes a lot of decision making and problem solving skills. Again, it may have not been the right choice but I chose to sell it to the customers who had already test driven the car and had a cashiers check made out to my dealership. It's important to add that I didn't sell it for more than your winning bid.

I admit, I am still learning. I felt the need to explain the situation in more depth, not to defend myself but to bring to light the situations that occur in dealerships with internet transactions. These things are not always blakc and white. Every day brings on new challenges and new situations.

Mr. Vestrand, Please accept my sincerest apology.

Ryan Gill

General Manager, Owner

Chesrown Chevrolet Buick GMC

Delaware, Ohio

Ryan,

Thank you for taking the time to write that, I think it is important to get the other side of the story out there.

I owned a car dealership for nine years and understand that you are often faced with difficult decisions. At the end of the day you have to do what you feel is right and after hearing both sides of the incident it sounds like you made the choice that had to be made given the information you had at the time,(if only he had called 40 minutes earlier).

Just curious what is your policy with deposits etc... can one be made at the conclusion of the auction via paypal to show intent?

Whoa. That's a new twist.

For a minute there I thought that our hometown was going to get a black eye...thanks Ryan for responding and clearing the air a bit.

I also appreciate your response Mr. Gill. I don't know the original poster and I don't know you or your dealership but it is nice to hear the other side and frankly it appears to me to be honest and believable. I am not in the car business but I have been self employed for 30 years and no matter how careful and considerate you are things come up where some one is either unhappy or feels ill used due to situations beyond your control. It sounds like you tried to do the right thing. Thanks again for posting.

Mr Gill you have an interesting twist on the facts.

You wrote: “I told my Sales Manager that we had sold it on eBay and to hold the keys until I reached the winning bidder.(he didn’t) He would have first shot at it. (I didn’t) Then here's where things went South. Ebay provided me all of Mr. Vestrands (gt5racer) contact info including phone number and address. I called the number provided and it was in fact a bad number. That is when I decided I would email you making you aware of the situation and requesting a call back as soon as possible. In fact, I sent 2 emails personally. The first at 7:47pm (less than an hour after the auction ended).

This is a copy of the email I received from your Sales Consultant, Tom Stephens at 7:38pm:

“Hi David,

Congratulations on winning the Mini Cooper on EBay!!!! Please call me asap at 614-403-2929 so we can make arrangements . Thanks again. I look forward to talking with you. Have a great evening .

Tom Stephens Sales Consultant Chesrown Chevrolet Buick GMC 1701 Columbus Pike (Rt. 23) Delaware, Ohio 43015 Phone 614.403.2929”

After receiving that email, I turned off my computer and went about doing other things. As for having a bad phone number, I have lived in the same home, and had the same phone number for 17 years. But giving you the befit of the doubt, maybe you transposed some numbers or in fact eBay did give you a bad number, you had my name and address – my telephone number is in the phone book!! My plan was to call you at lunch, well within the 24 hours stated in, YOUR “Terms and Conditions”, but when I checked you email a little after 10am, and saw your emails to call you, I called immediately. I was told the car was out on a test drive, so you still had time to do the right thing, but you chose to do the easier, quicker sale.
You wrote: “When I couldn't get a hold of you, it started to remind me of the MANY transactions I had experienced on ebay before where my winning bidder wanted nothing to do with buying the car that they had bid on. For example, THIS eBAY LISTING just ended earlier this week and sadly, the winning bidder cannot be contacted. It's safe to assume that after several days of trying to get a hold of this customer, I have no deal.”

So you have had problems with some internet buyers, you therefore assume all buyers are the same, and you gave that buyer “several days”, but you did not even wait your own “Terms and Conditions” of 24 hours for me.

You wrote:

Unless any money changes hands, all you have with a winning bid as an ebay seller is a nifty little sign”

Really! That is how you view eBay auctions, they mean nothing! Do you put that in your “Terms and Conditions”?

In “Terms and Condition” YOU do specify in YOUR eBay ad are:

“Placing a Bid: Your bid constitutes a legally binding contract”

I guess what you mean is that it is only legal and binding contract for the buyer, but not the seller.

“Finalizing your Purchase: Successful high bidder MUST communicate with at Countdown Cars at Chesrown by or phone 740-513-4181 within 24 hours of the auction ending to make arrangements to complete their transaction.

I guess what you mean is the buyer has 24hrs to contact you to finalize the purchase, unless you can find another buyer.

So in summary, after trying to call me once and found out it was a bad number, you did not try any other means of getting a good phone number and sent two emails that evening. When you did not get a response early the next morning you decided that you would not wait the 24hrs as stipulated in the “Terms and Conditions” that YOU wrote for YOUR auction. The reason you did not wait was:

(1) You have had bad experiences before with eBay auctions and therefore did not feel you had to abide by the rules that you agreed to when listing on eBay, or the “Term and Conditions” that YOU specified in your auction.

(2) You feel a buyer’s winning eBay auctions are meaningless until you have cash in your hand.

On a side note. Ebay has been useless with this issue, but to their credit, Chevrolet has been very interested in learning more about Chesrown Chevrolet’s ecommerce business practices.

Ryan, that was actually a pretty thorough and well reasoned response. Thanks for coming on here and sharing your perspective.

bearmtnmartin wrote: Did the auction include the caveat that the car is also for sale locally, and we reserve the right to end the auction early? If so, they did. 5 milliseconds before the clock counted down to zero. Probably hard to fight that one.

That's not quite right; ending the auction early is a procedure you go through on the site that results in an auction that states it was ended early "because the item is no longer available for sale." It's not just a claim that the seller makes. If the auction ends with a high bidder and either no reserve or a met reserve than it's not been ended early.

Their terms and conditions being broken by themselves is definitely grounds for a negative feedback, but thats about all that can be done. You are only out hopes, dreams, and expectations currently. You should be glad you aren't out a 10% deposit as well.

Interesting. Thank you, Ryan, for providing the other side of the story. Like most unfortunate circumstances, you can see both sides to this.

I don't think it is reasonable for a dealership to have to spend time to research and find a good contact number for you. If it was a mistake between Chesrown and eBay, then that's unfortunate but to suggest that they should go beyond the contact number is a stretch. Unfortunately the flakes of eBay and Craigslist have ruined it and make it the obvious assumption that the deal is going bad. To be fair to DaveV, the seller was clear about the terms and the 24 hours to respond. As hard as it is to let someone local walk away, maybe you just need to say "I can't sell this one until Monday." I actually had that happen to me when I was standing on a lot with a stack of hundreds in my hand. Like I said, the sign of a truly unfortunate happenstance is when both appear as though they acted in a reasonable fashion.

Ryan made the comment about posting ads on a variety of sites. When I think about that, the difference is that in eBay you demonstrate interest through a bid, but there is up to a week time lag. That's different than making direct communication with someone in the building by responding to an online ad. I guess the moral of the story for us is that if you are truly interested in a vehicle for auction that you somehow call and engage someone at the dealership during the auction. If you are willing to make a fair offer then do so by phone. If you are trying to "steal" the car, then I guess sometimes you'll win and sometimes you'll lose out.

And for Ryan along the same line, do you sell enough vehicles on eBay (versus other listing locations) to make it worth the hassle of deadbeat bidders and someone that it takes a week to carry out the negotiation? Is there a certain "type" of buyer that will use eBay but not one of the traditional used car listing sites? Do people who bid on eBay contact the dealership during the auction or are the majority truly site unseen blind bidders? I have never participated in an eBay auction because I'm not going to bid on something sight unseen in a distant location. I'll either go drive to see it in person, or communicate with the seller enough that I feel comfortable to negotiate over the phone and close the deal.

honestly, looks like your bad for not calling at 7:39 that evening as soon as you got the email from the salesman. stop trying to smear the dealer here. if you were that excited to get the mini you'd have been on the phone as soon as the auction ended.

i guess a buyer in the hand is worth a potential no show in the bush?

As my dad likes to say,

"There are two sides to every story, and neither is the truth"

What an emotional roller-coaster (not really, but that sounds good huh?).
At first I thought the dealer was a huge scum bag for selling the car, and (allegedly) the salesman hanging up on him.
Then the dealer posted his side and I thought oh well, I can see why he sold it. Still kinda stinks but we've all dealt with dead-beat bidders.
Then I read the OPs response and think it's supremely douchey that the dealer didn't even uphold HIS OWN TERMS AND CONDITIONS. That's pretty craptastic, but then again, this is the world of used cars. They got this reputation for good reason.
Then I thought, I wonder how they get the white stuff to stick to white-out tape.

I think the operative point here is that the auction is non-binding.

So, the terms and conditions that the dealer put in the auction where they say

Placing a Bid: Your bid constitutes a legally binding contract

are actually meaningless. There is no contract on either side.

So, they can sell the thing to whomever they want whenever they want. Winning an eBay auction for a car might as well just be you calling them and saying you want it for that price. I understand the frustration, but I can see the dealer's point. If they can't get a hold of you through the contact information given to them on eBay and they have someone coming in to look at the car why would they try to hunt you down?

Why would they not wait the 24 hours THEY STIPULATED? I've heard stories about place and I'm not surprised.

Harvey wrote: I think the operative point here is that the auction is non-binding.

What is the point of listing as an "auction" if it is simply a car for sale ad? Even if you "win" the first person to show up gets "your" car.

I have purchased items on Ebay but not in at least 5 years. I don't see that changing.

I think the argument should be carried on privately between the two parties from here on forward. It is just going to end badly here in public. I see both sides and both ended up in a bad way.

Hopefully the dealer will change there terms and conditions and state that they have the right to sell the car even if there is a winning bid.

I know if It were me I would have called the dealer with in seconds after winning the bid on a large purchase like that. Yes the T&C say 24 hours but come on it is a car!!!! And a cool one at that!!!

I use EBay now and then and have had some problems but it is commerce. EBay or in person there are always going to be a percentage of those sales that go bad.

@ Mr. Ryan Gill. Can you use your dealer network to see about getting another car like the one that was sold? Any BMW/Mini dealers you know that can put feelers out there for a similar car? Can you put him on some sort of waiting list if one comes available? You can not undo what has been done but there is a lot that can be done to try and make it right. (And you may make a couple $$$ in the process)

The two of you tossing around would of, should have, could have, arguments is at this point useless. Look forward and see if the situation can be made better. And that I am sure we all would be interested in!!!!!

I hope you stick around here. GRM is a great place with a bunch of great people. We could use your opinions and what not around here.

Having been berkeleyed by deadbeat bidding on my own cars on eBay.

Whoever puts cash in my hand first is the new owner.

Looks like that is what happened here as well.

Trans_Maro wrote: Having been berkeleyed by deadbeat bidding on my own cars on eBay. Whoever puts cash in my hand first is the new owner. Looks like that is what happened here as well.

this wasn't a ebay deal, but I'll relate the somewhat unusual situation I was in ….

after deciding that using my DD for my PDX car wasn't the smartest thing I had ever done, I saw a CRX that had been built to STS standards and doubled as a TT and hill-climb car

dithered around for a couple of months before contacting the seller …. he still had the car

we e-mailed and phoned back and forth for several weeks, before I told him that I was going to the Rolex and would be coming back through Columbia the Mon after the race … would he be home ? and could I stop in and check out the car ?

yes, he said… I asked if I needed to send him a deposit, and his response was "no, you're the first to show any real interest in the 6 mo the car's been for sell?

he told me later that less than an hr after this phone call, a friend (of both of us) called and said he wanted he car (he knew it quite well from various events) … said he had cash in hand

seller told him that he was second in line … and if I didn't come through he could have it

ended up he sold it to me for $4k (asking price was $4800) … not many sellers would act that way

Trans_Maro wrote: Having been berkeleyed by deadbeat bidding on my own cars on eBay. Whoever puts cash in my hand first is the new owner. Looks like that is what happened here as well.

Then stay off of ebay.

Someone piss in your cornflakes this morning?

spitfirebill wrote:

Trans_Maro wrote: Having been berkeleyed by deadbeat bidding on my own cars on eBay. Whoever puts cash in my hand first is the new owner. Looks like that is what happened here as well.

Then stay off of ebay.

slefain wrote:

I hope your happy I almost did a spit take after seeing this

Bababooey wrote: That's nothing. The sales manager for Upstate Toyota in Batavia NY took my keys...

"Took" your keys? No, you gave them your keys.