Welcome to the new GrassrootsMotorsports.com

I agree that Bax has done an impressive job of one that I wouldn't wish on anyone. I don't yet love the results, but I'll grow accustomed. As a point of reference, I also don't usually like new cars until they are a few years old. I admit that I'm resistant to change.

To Margies point, about trying to make the site "better", I think that a lot of the hesitation is that the users by and large didn't want it "better". I mean, by any quantifiable measure Tim's new BMW is "better" than anything else in the GRM parking lot. It would also be the least interesting thing to me at a GRM car show. Nobody ever said "Gee - GRM is pretty good, but if only they had a fully integrated site that knew where I live and who I want to vote for, it would be really great."

Say "GRM wants it because the ad revenue will increase" or "GRM wants it because you'll buy more T-Shirts" or "GRM wants it because we're gonna win the website fair". Just don't say "We're doing it for you" when it is a draw for the end user.

Regardless, hell of a job on a daunting task Baxter.

$.02, Dave

...two...three...four...

Damnit! How many times???

Actually, they did do it for us. Everything's more integrated and works better. The map is cool (I had no idea other members were within a couple of hundred miles), the Reader's Rides is better and now displays in the left column (...eight....nine....) and I've discovered a couple of really cool cars there already, the events are tied into the rest of it. Now that all this is living in the same databases and Tim has Total Control over the whole site (which he didn't with off-the-shelf forum software), we may see some interesting mashups. And we benefit from that.

Interesting mashups like tying board users to events they happen to be entered in and the cars they happen to be running in it?:cool:

I never promised better for you--I most specifically said we did this to fix problems ON OUR END.

However, it's crap to claim we did this to sell stuff. Not because it's untrue, but because it's such a silly, obvious thing to "detect". Hell-o? We're in business here? Anything we do should be, ultimately, to sell stuff.

Fortunately, we're in the information business, so our idea of selling stuff can be a more diffuse approach that involves building communities, creating connections... stuff that makes people want to, ultimately, read our magazines. We don't have to put on a hard sell or cram discount coupons down people's throats--or hijack our own community to whore it out.

But when that community is hosted in an environment that is walled off into little unconnected ghettos where we can't introduce the different pieces/parts to each other or do any of that information-rich stuff, it's a problem we need to fix. To make better, if you will. Especially if the software hosting it is causing us additional problems.

This ain't perfect yet. That's why Tim's working crazy hours. He'd be a lot further along if we'd treated the beta testing as closed (remember, the Classic site has been up for a good long time) and just said Here's the thing, take it; but he's been taking suggestions and incorporating changes IN REAL TIME. That's not usual, but we believe loyalty is a two-way street. Yes, it's still dog-slow, and yes, we haven't rolled out all of the added coolness that is now possible, but we'll get there. And I really think you'll like it.

And if you don't, you can express your displeasure by voting, or by commenting on my profile... and probably lots of other ways you will devise as you learn your ways around.

Margie

edit: Speaking of my profile, how'd you guys find out about that arm?

Tim Baxter wrote: Interesting mashups like tying board users to events they happen to be entered in and the cars they happen to be running in it?:cool:

There's a great example. Hmm, I'm running in four of the events currently on the calendar, using two of the cars in Reader's Rides... :) Need a guinea pig?

Actually, the MG Experience board does that - and I know Tim's a user over there. When an event is listed, you can identify that you'll be there. And you know what? It works. I posted to that board that I'd be at the Mitty, and the first person to walk up and say hi to me at the event was another MG Experience member. Very cool.

I personally love the "It's better for us, deal with it" approach to the "There's lots of cool stuff you'll come to love" approach. One is a 100% reasonable position while the other feels like I'm being sold. Thank you.

Tim, after a long summer day, that's my favorite refreshment so here's my e-quivalent of bringing over a thank you 6 pack. yes we're a whiny bunch but we appreciate all of you and the rest of the grm gangs work. most of us remember that even if we're not in love with the new site (yet) you're doing most of the work to make us happy.

Tim, i'll admit i wasn't too happy with it at first, but it's getting better every day. Doing a great job on a quick basis. :)

Now...... if i could just figure out what was going on with the sigs.

Are we going to have those? (It's probably in the FAQ)

So, if I reading this correctly, some of you guys don't like the white space on the left side of the screen because you fear that it's going to get filled with ads? Do you guys know something that I don't?

Personally, I find the more narrow column easier to read.

Oooooo..... signature.:nice:

Yes, signatures.

David S. Wallens wrote: So, if I reading this correctly, some of you guys don't like the white space on the left side of the screen because you fear that it's going to get filled with ads? Do you guys know something that I don't? Personally, I find the more narrow column easier to read.

I think it's just that it narrows the viewing window by a large percentage, for no good reason. Good reasons have been hinted at, but for now it's just sacred white space.

The presence of readers rides popping in there makes it seem a bit less pointless, but does eat up bandwidth.

It looks like a frames site, but without the ability (that I can find) to pull the relevant frame out and view it by itself.

I think it's just that it narrows the viewing window by a large percentage, for no good reason. Good reasons have been hinted at, but for now it's just sacred white space.

Are we talking about the white space under the reader rides? Oh, that's where all of the ads are going to go. Lots of big, flashing, annoying ads for totally irrelevant things. (I keed, I keed.)

But hey, we now have signatures!

David S. Wallens wrote: So, if I reading this correctly, some of you guys don't like the white space on the left side of the screen because you fear that it's going to get filled with ads?

No, its just a horrifying waste of space. I feel like I'm back on my old TRS 80 with a screen thats 11" wide.

The size of the left bar makes perfect sense on the front page of the website, but its an egregious misuse of space for a webforum.

I just want to say thank you to Tim and anyone else that has been working on this move to the new boards. It's all gone pretty smoothly. Featured Reader's Ride is a pretty cool new feature.

EDIT: Just one thing I am wondering. Are cookies supposed to keep us logged in? I haven't seen a checkbox specifying that and it keeps logging me out. Just tell me if I am being a moron and I'll keep looking for it.

Reality check folks...

You saw us put on the Mitty three weeks ago We finished our first issue of British Motoring one week ago. Yes, we now have a third publication to deal with. You saw us at Carlisle, PA this past weekend. You saw us at the NASA event at Roebling Road, GA and a Rallycross last weekend. We are moving our whole company next weekend. Yes, we did a complete restoration on a sixty year old building in the last 60 days. In two weeks, you will see some of us at a rally, some at the VIR Goldcup in VA and oh, in case we get too lazy, we have the Ultimate Track Car Challenge in California that same weekend that we put on.

I hired a full time guy, Tim Baxter, to work on this and make our websites a major priority, and keep you guys happy. Unlike every other magazine on the planet, every one of our staff members right up to the King Dork participates on the message board.

Remember, I know where each and every one of you lives and we are all just a little bit stressed right now, so cut us some Berkeleying slack, will you, if we are a little light on the posts this week

I guess I'll have to get used to the new format. I won't be so dramatic as to say it's bad, just different and I guess we fear change. I'm just keeping my fingers crossed that I like the new forum as much as I liked the old one.

I will look at your concerns, but we believe in Tim Baxter and he is doing what we have asked of him, so blame us, not him. Bottom line, the old software sucked with no reporting and it was very complicated to work with. It was me, not Tim Baxter who made the change. We had to or the website would have had to close.

If you go back in time to early posts, you will see that there was just as much panic the last time we changed it.

Iadr, I think rather than fire Tim Baxter, we will ban you from the board. As I tried to explain, last night, we don't need any more stress right now, especially from someone who isn't even buying magazines, because we changed the website. Not seeing the logic or connection there, but you need to back down real fast and apologize or you are history. Poor Tim Baxter is working over 100 hours a week right now to make you guys happy.

I think you need to realize that while this is not a volunteer or club type site and board, we don't really monetize it much either.

It is basically something we do to strengthen our relationship with our readers and hopefully attract a few new ones.

iadr wrote:

I hired a full time guy, Tim Baxter, to work on this and make our websites a major priority,

"Maybe that's the issue..." Ok, not pussing footing around. Not only do I have totally different tastes in websites than your guy, but I find his attitude stinks. I've been through 3 wholesale website changes, and the separation of CM for no reason, and god knows what else- the Ebay subsite crap., etc etc. All unnecessary, unasked for. I'm not concerned whether a website has the lastest trickery, just that it is readable. And this one isn't- Font is wrong, font is too small, screen formating is horrible. Listen! I got mad enought to never have bought another one of your magazines after the *last* website debacle! Think about it, and fire Tim Baxter. A 100% waste of money (and skin.)

Obviously you're the world's best judge of a stinky attitude. That last comment was far and beyond what I take from anybody. Call me names, but don't insult my employees for working their butts off.

I especially like the fact that you admit you freaked out the LAST time we changed the board--and that you don't seem to know you contradicted yourself by asserting that our changes were unnecessary, then following that up by complaining about CM being split off from the old board. (Hint: Look at the CM forum at the bottom of our forum lists now.)

Another hint: You already don't buy the magazines. Finish the job and get lost.

And my, you're right--this not pussy-footing around is so nice!

Margie

You know, there's a fine line between constructive criticism and "A 100% waste of money (and skin.)".

No, wait, there isn't. One is what reasonable people do and the other is the domain of internet tough guys who hide behind their anonymity and lob insults. It's also terribly rude. Attack the content all you want. Please don't make it personal. I don't like it when people insult my friends.

jg

Wow. Yeah - uncalled for iadr.

I recognize that I'm being a pain in Baxter's ass, but I have great respect for what he is able to do, and the diligence with which he does it, regardless of whether or not I love the end product. Which, BTW, is getting better every day. Tim and I have a philisophical difference on what a website should be, but this is turning into a great execution of his side of the debate - to the point where I have to question my side.

I hope that even through the roughest of my constructive critisism, that I never came off as 10% the asshole that you just did.

Marjorie Suddard wrote: Another hint: You already don't buy the magazines. Finish the job and get lost. And my, you're right--this not pussy-footing around is so nice! Margie

I <3 Margie!

This post is really just a test, but seems like all change is met with some resistance. Personally, I am going to work with the new board for a few weeks before making any judgemental comment.

Wow. other than a few issuse i've been seeing with the reply box doing some weird things (like randomly resizing) when hitting the backspace key, or highlighting something to cut or copy/paste, I've had surprisingly little problems using the board.

I'm on a LOT of boards and almost every one has a different look and feel. This is simply another look and feel. I have no problems with the size, the fonts, the readability, etc. But I have a dual 20" monitor setup at 1280x1024 per monitor, and have the browser open in a smaller window on one monitor. I don't have to scroll side to side, everything is legible, the amount of grey space to the left doesn't affect it's readibility or useability. And I'm not on any message boards that use a Serif font as the default.

Good work on the new site!

GRM staff, you rock!

I can't even picture another magazine staff chiming in like you do. ++++

Than again, I remember changing Henry F's TR4 stub axle at mid Ohio in 1999 and having Tim and more than a few of his chronies critiquing my work while enjoying some sudsy drinks, so being in touch with reality is no stranger to the staff.

Jack