What about adding a top speed class to the challenge

Cactus said:

Not totally related, but I guess this thread as l is as close to relevant as I'm going to get.

 

If one wanted to bring an 04 cup car to the blytheville mile, any idea what class that would fall in?

They have a class for circle track cars. The engine class will depend on what you are running displacement (A, AA, B, C, etc) wise, as well as fuel class, and blown / unblown, etc.. 
But it'll run in CT - being circle track. At least, that's how their rule book used to be. I haven't done any ECTA mile stuff in a few years, but that's where it used to fall.  So, say you had a big inch big block, running naturually aspirated on gas, it would be an AAGCT . AA being engine class. G being gas class (F would be fuel and CT being circle track. The class for the chassis. 

I just looked on Wikipedia and it looks like the easy button to setting a record is "Tracked Vehicle".

Current record is 51.1 MPH held by a S2000 Scorpion Peacekeeper.

Given that I've seen an M-1 Abrams drive by a 60 mph that record seems set to fall to anyone who wants to show up.  The Ripsaw claims a top speed of 60.

frenchyd said:

I'm mentally trying to figure out how fast I can get a V12 XJS to go.    I've got 2 new turbo's  just itching to eat some salt.  Hmmmm 

Plenty of fast mile events held all over the country. Just go enter and see. 

Lots of turbo Vette's, turbo Lambo's, GTRs, etc.

In reply to KyAllroad :

I imagine that a tracked vehicle would likely ruin the surface for everyone else, possibly for years though. 

Also, converting a snowmobile from running a belt to a retrofitted shortened track would be the answer. 

Captdownshift (Forum Supporter) said:

In reply to KyAllroad :

I imagine that a tracked vehicle would likely ruin the surface for everyone else, possibly for years though. 

 

Also, converting a snowmobile from running a belt to a retrofitted shortened track would be the answer. 

Record he is looking at is for the fastest *production tank*, from the guiness book of world records.  Not quite the same thing as a FIA, SCTA-BNI, etc record.

That land speed wiki page is full of errors and misleading information.  Part of why I personally don't put a ton of faith in wiki E36 M3.

I think Andrew Nelson has some LSR records. 

In reply to GaryC83 :

 This isn't about setting records.  This is about racing with a $20XX budget. 
   If you show up with a big block something you will be so far off the record but you still might win.  
    On the other hand if you show up with 1000cc something you might be close to a record but lose. ( or win). 

Floating Doc (Forum Supporter) said:

I think Andrew Nelson has some LSR records. 

I'm pretty sure he does in that 54 Studebaker. But I suspect he's over the budget. 
One thing is for certain if he runs there is a extremely likely chance of him winning. 

z31maniac said:

frenchyd said:

I'm mentally trying to figure out how fast I can get a V12 XJS to go.    I've got 2 new turbo's  just itching to eat some salt.  Hmmmm 

Plenty of fast mile events held all over the country. Just go enter and see. 

Lots of turbo Vette's, turbo Lambo's, GTRs, etc.

Wouldn't it be fun to show up in a car that cost less then their monthly insurance payment and have just as much fun?  

Captdownshift (Forum Supporter) said:

In reply to KyAllroad :

I imagine that a tracked vehicle would likely ruin the surface for everyone else, possibly for years though. 

 

Also, converting a snowmobile from running a belt to a retrofitted shortened track would be the answer. 

I do like the thinking out of the box though! 

IMHO, the biggest problem with this would be the car would be pretty useless for any other kind of racing.  There are not many classes where even the most basic rules would make it a bad autocrosser or track car.  Heck, even the cars that came from drag racing (which are pretty obvious when it's a top fuel chassis) are not very good at drag racing anymore.

Maybe with some very careful looking at the rule book can you find a class where the mods are so restrictive that the chassis can be used for something else.

Although if you are interested, for $17k, you can own a LSR car that has 2 or 3 records still- https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/452521656352662/?ref=search&referral_code=marketplace_search&referral_story_type=post&tracking=browse_serp%3Ab324e5b3-2a2a-4349-8639-7b52dd48b1fd  (this is the car the article I posted before was about)

KyAllroad said:

I just looked on Wikipedia and it looks like the easy button to setting a record is "Tracked Vehicle".

Current record is 51.1 MPH held by a S2000 Scorpion Peacekeeper.

 

Given that I've seen an M-1 Abrams drive by a 60 mph that record seems set to fall to anyone who wants to show up.  The Ripsaw claims a top speed of 60.

For the largest group that runs on the salt flats- the records can be found here- https://scta-bni.org/bville-class-recs

There are a few other groups that run there, but I've only "run" with the scta-bni group.

frenchyd said:

In reply to GaryC83 :

 This isn't about setting records.  This is about racing with a $20XX budget. 
   If you show up with a big block something you will be so far off the record but you still might win.  
    On the other hand if you show up with 1000cc something you might be close to a record but lose. ( or win). 

I know exactly what you guys are trying to do. Like I've said I have followed the challenge for years (2003ish?) And eventually would love to build one for it, as am exhibition piece as I have a very unfair advantage, being a pro-fabricator at a very well known shop. 

Like I have also said you would be better off looking yo standing mile vs the salt. For a numerous amount of reasons. Being easier to find classes where you wouldn't have to change a whole hell of a lot as the 130 and 150mph rules are a LOT more lax as far as things required compared to the SCTA. The chassis setup would also be a LOT easier back and forth compared to the salt and most importantly it's a LOT easier on the cars, access for everybody, costs involved, etc. 

I'm speaking as somebody whom has done it from 150mph on up through working on the current world's fastest piston powered setup with a 481mph exit and 470 average.  This is one area where I have more experience than the average guy. By far and away. 

Again. If any one has questions I'm happy to answer them. 

I ran at the ECTA NC venue before they moved to Ohio and unsanctioned events at the Dade/Collier airport in S FL on the strip built for the SST planes. Hot Rod magazine used to sponsor an event once a year at the ECTA. There was an entry level at the ECTA (I ran in) that was limited to 130 MPH for vehicles without lots of safety equipment and entrants had to work up to that 130 speed over a few passes. Go over 135 MPH and get bounced out. The unsanctioned events at Dade /Collier seemed kinda sketchy as there were folks running up in the 200 MPH+ range with minimal safety equipment and what not and minimal safety personnel. My highest speed there was 159 MPH but they were using radar rather than proper timing equipment so not accurate. My car was noticeably down on power in the hot humid S FL weather compared with NC being naturally aspirated and I'd added 200 lbs of roll cage.

If GRM was to hold an event I'd think the first place they'd look at the possibility of using would be the strip at the Johnny Bohmer Proving Grounds that was formerly part of the Kennedy Space Center with a 300' wide 15,000' long runway that was built for NASA's orbiters. Thinking about it, they could probably run the whole Challenge event there. Wouldn't have as sophisticated timing for the drag strip portion but might have a better area to set up the Auto-X.

This is the old ECTA venue in NC, my Firebird leaving the line.

[URL=https://app.photobucket.com/u/NOTATA/a/195ca599-f3de-4580-a4cc-d55daa8db651/p/7cddd71e-ec30-4339-8bc2-b07d34676535][/URL]

This is the Dade /Collier runway.

[URL=https://app.photobucket.com/u/NOTATA/a/e06d8faf-6076-4b92-a2c2-6fb841f282a7/p/7e5e9204-0d0d-42fd-ad09-9ae938ceeb6d][/URL]

Return road at Dade/Collier with the runway off in the distance.

[URL=https://app.photobucket.com/u/NOTATA/a/e06d8faf-6076-4b92-a2c2-6fb841f282a7/p/1ce08bf3-99ca-4e19-9c7d-0350b2c5bee0][/URL]

In reply to GaryC83 :

What kind of steering angle does a car like the Poteet streamliner have? When Frenchy posted this thread my first thought/image was a car along these lines, some sort of streamliner but built to Challenge rules and budget. No doubt anything I built would make a salt regular cringe and/or laugh, but the thought process is interesting. It would be fun to try to see how fast one could go on $2K if there weren't a distinct chance someone would get hurt.

In reply to NOT A TA :

TBH, I'd be curious to run my Volvo at something like that, it is speed limited to 158mph (because take that BMW, we will limit at 5km/h higher than you!) but allegedly due to tire growth and other factors it is closer to 161mph.

Safety this and safety that, anybody with a driver's license in Germany could find out for themselves, on some public roads, with traffic even, in shirtsleeves and Wagner playing on the CD player...

In reply to Pete. (l33t FS) :

The fastest I've ever driven was on the autobahn in some sort of rental Mercedes @ 147 and that really got my attention. It wasn't quite flat out because there were four of us, plus a trunk full of luggage and golf clubs, and it was running nose up and had a tendency to get floaty.

DeadSkunk (Warren) said:

In reply to GaryC83 :

What kind of steering angle does a car like the Poteet streamliner have? When Frenchy posted this thread my first thought/image was a car along these lines, some sort of streamliner but built to Challenge rules and budget. No doubt anything I built would make a salt regular cringe and/or laugh, but the thought process is interesting. It would be fun to try to see how fast one could go on $2K if there weren't a distinct chance someone would get hurt.

Typically this stuff is in the 8-10 degree range of steering angle. Not much at all, by any stretch. 

In reply to Pete. (l33t FS) :

Some of the unsanctioned events have a majority of cars that don't run at sanctioned LSR events. When I arrived at one held by Mile Marker-1  I quickly realized this was a whole different group of enthusiasts than you typically find at LSR's.  Most of them drove their cars to the event and only made one or two passes "Just to see what she'll do.".   It was really cool to see folks with all kinds of expensive exotics etc. out actually running them though. Just listening to them running up through the gears with the exhaust wailing till they disappeared was fun. IIRC mine was one of only two cars with carbs.  Here's a walkthrough video someone took in tech inspection. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j_p0vwhaGJw

In reply to GaryC83 :

Gary, what's the best way for someone new to get started? I've searched but am having a hard time finding rule books, class info, safety requirements etc. I'm not new to racing by any means, but LSR is foreign to me. Thanks in advance!

Edit: I'm asking because running on the salt is a bucket list thing for me. And being in Colorado means I'm pretty close

GaryC83 said:

frenchyd said:

In reply to GaryC83 :

 This isn't about setting records.  This is about racing with a $20XX budget. 
   If you show up with a big block something you will be so far off the record but you still might win.  
    On the other hand if you show up with 1000cc something you might be close to a record but lose. ( or win). 

I know exactly what you guys are trying to do. Like I've said I have followed the challenge for years (2003ish?) And eventually would love to build one for it, as am exhibition piece as I have a very unfair advantage, being a pro-fabricator at a very well known shop. 

Like I have also said you would be better off looking yo standing mile vs the salt. For a numerous amount of reasons. Being easier to find classes where you wouldn't have to change a whole hell of a lot as the 130 and 150mph rules are a LOT more lax as far as things required compared to the SCTA. The chassis setup would also be a LOT easier back and forth compared to the salt and most importantly it's a LOT easier on the cars, access for everybody, costs involved, etc. 

I'm speaking as somebody whom has done it from 150mph on up through working on the current world's fastest piston powered setup with a 481mph exit and 470 average.  This is one area where I have more experience than the average guy. By far and away. 

Again. If any one has questions I'm happy to answer them. 

 

 

You probably are right  regarding the standing mile vs Bonneville. 
    However bucket list wise Bonneville is there and I've only barely noticed the standing mile events. 
     That said, I think it's not a significant difference in distance for me, nor do I think my Roll cage would have any issue. I understand parachutes are available. And I've got a 2:88 posi rear end waiting to go back in. 
      The temptation to use an XKE instead of the XJS is strong. It would have about 1/3 less frontal area. The slight down side is the XJS  has a slightly better drag CF 

GaryC83 said:

Cactus said:

Not totally related, but I guess this thread as l is as close to relevant as I'm going to get.

 

If one wanted to bring an 04 cup car to the blytheville mile, any idea what class that would fall in?

They have a class for circle track cars. The engine class will depend on what you are running displacement (A, AA, B, C, etc) wise, as well as fuel class, and blown / unblown, etc.. 
But it'll run in CT - being circle track. At least, that's how their rule book used to be. I haven't done any ECTA mile stuff in a few years, but that's where it used to fall.  So, say you had a big inch big block, running naturually aspirated on gas, it would be an AAGCT . AA being engine class. G being gas class (F would be fuel and CT being circle track. The class for the chassis. 

Isn't there a class for just about anything?  I remember reading about Offy powered Midgets class, Flathead class, Model A engine class,  etc?  

In reply to WillG80 :

Sign up and buy an SCTA-BNI rulebook is always my step 1 recommendation.  It's all spelled out in the rule book.  2022 book isn't out yet, but a 2021 book will get you started. Theyre 10 bucks on the scta site currently. 

https://shop.scta-bni.org/2021-SCTA-OFFICIAL-RULEBOOK-2021-RULEBOOK.htm

It's a fantastic resource. Once you have a class and start building all the contacts for inspectors and such are MORE than willing to answer questions on any grey area items you may run into. Those are all listed in the book as well.  It also lists the records for each class. 

If you are out to set a record, and that's it, some guys start backwards by looking for a soft (read lower mph relatively "easy" to attain) record and build for that. 

If you're looking to have fun and run whatever you want to build, regardless of chasing a record that's a different story. 

The landracing forum is also an excellent resource. 

http://www.landracing.com/forum/index.php

Did you have a chassis and driveline in mind that you would like to build or is it a chase an attainable record thing....or what's your plan? As that will kind of determine how to start looking at the rulebook. 

I think $2000 cars going 150mph plus would be a bad idea.

I mean.....I've had the Rampage up over 110mph with about 2k left before redline. I don't think I want to drive much faster than that with that car, I love it and all but it's not exactly perfect in any category.

frenchyd said:

GaryC83 said:

Cactus said:

Not totally related, but I guess this thread as l is as close to relevant as I'm going to get.

 

If one wanted to bring an 04 cup car to the blytheville mile, any idea what class that would fall in?

They have a class for circle track cars. The engine class will depend on what you are running displacement (A, AA, B, C, etc) wise, as well as fuel class, and blown / unblown, etc.. 
But it'll run in CT - being circle track. At least, that's how their rule book used to be. I haven't done any ECTA mile stuff in a few years, but that's where it used to fall.  So, say you had a big inch big block, running naturually aspirated on gas, it would be an AAGCT . AA being engine class. G being gas class (F would be fuel and CT being circle track. The class for the chassis. 

Isn't there a class for just about anything?  I remember reading about Offy powered Midgets class, Flathead class, Model A engine class,  etc?  

They do, but you have to build for the record to pass tech. If the record in the class your vehicle fits into, is say a 256mph record, you have to build and be able to pass tech for that in your class, even if your setup will only do 140-150.   It's how it works on the salt. As a super fast explanation, as I'm on my phone and getting fully into it, will take a while.

It's part of why mile events can tend to be a "friendlier" (read: more accessible to average guy with a do it all all around car) place, than that of Bonneville.  They can tend to slot you in where you fit, regardless of it your car is in a 250mph class but only capable of 150. They'll make sure you have the stuff to run 150, and let you run once you've done their rookie stuff. If you blow past that, they will kick you out, obviously. But its a very welcoming run what brung, within reason to a point, affair. 

I'm not trying to discourage anybody, by any stretch. Just trying to help people realize it's not as easy as showing up and running for a time on the salt. There are also rookie runs, then all sorts of licensing passes you need to do, with steps that must followed for each license. And on and on.  You can't just turn up with a caged car, they'll wave you through and let you go 220 in a blown NHRA 8 point caged car. It's not how it works. At all.