What Am I Doing Buying a 26 yr Old Minivan?| Grassroots Motorsports forum |

PHeller PowerDork
6/14/15 9:30 a.m.

Having moved to Flagstaff, AZ last month with a single car, I needed to purchase something. Recent hiking excursions utilizing forest service roads told me AWD/4x4 isn't neccesary, but larger tires and more clearance is.

I went out an put a deposit on a 1989 Dodge Caravan. 2.5l, A670, no rust, 133,000 miles. Previous owner has replaced a host of ignition and fuel related things, and is putting in a new fuel pump this week.

Now luckily if I get some sense I can bail on this deal and only lose $100, but it makes nearly perfect sense for me to own one of these. I had the following criteria:

Big enough to haul a king size mattress inside or in the bed (truck or van)
Big enough to sleep two people comfortably inside (truck with camper shell would have worked)
Easy to fix without a garage, or in remote locations (full size vans are difficult about this)
Good enough on gas that I wouldn't be afraid to drive it (limits me to a Ranger, virtually no full-size vans)
Cheap enough that leaving on the side of the road isn't a concern.

This narrowed me down to an older 5spd 2wd pickup (Ranger, S10, F150, Chevy 1500, etc), something like an Astro Safari, or a 87-95 Caravoyager. In an ideal world I'd get a Ford Transit Connect or similar "tradesman van", but those are still too expensive for what is essentially intended to be my truck.

I initially thought a 5spd Caravoyager would be sweet, but finding one was near impossible. The non-overdrive automatic should still be decent on gas an relatively stout. Still....it's a 26 year old minivan. What am I doing?

My hopes would be to install the tallest tire possible and do a small coil spacer/shackle lift to gain more ground clearance, and maybe see if I can't find a Rampage skid plate. Any ideas on how to get more ground clearance? The rear axle tube may be tricky, and I'm not sure anyone ever made a production skid plate for these cars.

JohnRW1621 UltimaDork
6/14/15 9:43 a.m.

I don't think you will get a king size bed inside.

Teh E36 M3 SuperDork
6/14/15 10:06 a.m.

The astrofari's get crap mileage anyway. I think that's a fair buy. Not my dream car, but it serves a purpose.

PHeller PowerDork
6/14/15 10:06 a.m.

Not laying down, and not a box spring, but I imagine I could probably fit one diagonal-like with a little bit of bend. Maybe. If not, no big deal.

moparman76_69 UltraDork
6/14/15 10:09 a.m.

It's definitely a A413, the A670 is a 4 speed and was never available behind the 4 cylinder. Luckily a 5 speed swap is the easiest thing you'll ever do. So is a turbo swap

And welcome to the club. If you're crazy at least it's the right kind of crazy.

PHeller PowerDork
6/14/15 10:25 a.m.

Is the A413 a decent trans? I know for certain its not OD.

It's funny how lots of people obsess about overpriced VW Campers, but I feel weird seeing the practicality in an early Dodge Caravan.

Sine_Qua_Non Dork
6/14/15 10:27 a.m.

PHeller wrote: Not laying down, and not a box spring, but I imagine I could probably fit one diagonal-like with a little bit of bend. Maybe. If not, no big deal.

That is what the space on top of the minivan is for.

EastCoastMojo GRM+ Memberand Mod Squad
6/14/15 10:59 a.m.

I had an '89 Voyager turbo. God I loved tbat thing. I don't think a king would fit inside, but for camping type purposes I think an inflatable mattress back there would be ideal. I never even owned the back seats for mine, and I never missed them. It was my cargo van/mountain bike hauler/daily driver for many years. It's amazing what you can fit in them with no back seats.

G_Body_Man HalfDork
6/14/15 11:25 a.m.

Get an Astro or Safari, and do it up Dajiban style.

Vigo PowerDork
6/14/15 11:59 a.m.

It's definitely a A413, the A670 is a 4 speed and was never available behind the 4 cylinder.

A670 is the a413 that bolts to the 3.0 v6. It's the same guts in a different case.

The worst thing by far about the 2.5/3spd caravan is power delivery. They're just insanely slow. That same drivetrain in the smaller Aries and Lebaron that i had it in ran 18.7-20.0 in the 1/4 depending on how i fiddled with base timing and shift points. In a van i would guess it is over 20 seconds in the 1/4 mile. In the real world that means you will NEVER be at highway speed at the end of an onramp unless you get to start accelerating on the access road. I remember taking one on a test drive when i worked at a transmission shop and without getting it on the highway i didnt have the space on any surface level streets to get it above 55mph.

I don't think it's a fatally flawed vehicle, but a 5spd swap is the best thing you could ever do for yourself if you wanted to actually enjoy driving it at all.

PHeller PowerDork
6/14/15 12:05 p.m.

Hmm good to know. It'll be awhile before I'd do a 5spd swap.

Honestly if a decent priced lsx gm pickup with a manual came up nearby I'd be tempted to lose $100 on the van in favor of a newer manual truck. Thing is I've only seen three nearby and they were still in phx. They also cost 3x+ over this van.

I really don't want a full sized van. I hate vehicles with cramped engine bays, dogbox or not.

moparman76_69 UltraDork
6/14/15 12:16 p.m.

Vigo wrote:
It's definitely a A413, the A670 is a 4 speed and was never available behind the 4 cylinder.
A670 is the a413 that bolts to the 3.0 v6. It's the same guts in a different case.

Yeah I goofed, the A604 is what I'm thinking of.

All you need is a 5 speed donor for the pedals and shifter/cables. For the pedals any 5 speed fwd car from that era will work. You can use a car shifter but it will be kind of short. I know Daytona cables would work also. Hardest part is welding in the rear bobble strut mount to the k member. It took me and a buddy part of a day to 5 speed swap a Sundance and the process is similar.

daytonaer HalfDork
6/14/15 12:24 p.m.

I have the "convert a bed" option, but it is in a garage in PA. The middle seat was a 3 piece unit with legs that converted to a bed. Not luxury bed, but off the floor seat material bed.

allpar hates hotlinks

The mechanics are pretty robust, but basic. You should be able to fix stuff over and over cheaply. Junkyard spares have dried up however. You will find many k-car parts swap easily(engine), yet some parts were uprated for van use(suspension/brakes), but probably not your van (think 3.3 with towing package for larger hubs and brakes, stiffer springs)

The driving position was just perfect on these for highway cruising.

You may never blow up the 3 speed auto (and you may wish you could), but if you do a manual trans swap it can be rigged without factory (van specific) parts. The difficult part is the manual trans driver side trans/motor mount bracket, you need the manual trans van piece(or modify yours). C/V's plug in, trans bolts up, k-car clutch pedal and cut down brake pedal will work. Clutch cable from k-car may fit and any shifter from that specific trans can be bolted to the floor. I do have all the minivan specific manual trans parts, but you shouldn't need them.

If you go to town and love the thing, and it is rust free, you may find someone like me who has too many spares and no actual vehicle to use them on. The wiring harness bulk head connector on the firewall can be detached and a turbo specific wiring harness swapped in (easier than all other k-cars), a turbo swap is as easy as finding the mechanical bits (really from almost any turbo k-car) and bolting them in. 88-89 use the same style wiring and ecm, I have 2 sets..

For raised suspension; get loaded struts from a grand (LWB) with the v-6 and towing package, ditto for the rear leafs. You could add gas struts or helper springs to the rear if needed too.

I wouldn't stress too much about ground clearance; the front K-frame basically protects the oil pan from hits (and is robust), a simple skid could be extended from the k-frame rearward covering the oil pan if you worry. Not much hangs from the undercarriage. I suppose you could worry about the rad, but it isn't that low in the front. Just look under one of these things, shouldn't hurt much to drag it over stuff.

Road trip to PA, get a truck (or your new minivan!) and get all This Crap! plus more!

daytonaer HalfDork
6/14/15 12:32 p.m.

moparman76_69 wrote:
Vigo wrote:
It's definitely a A413, the A670 is a 4 speed and was never available behind the 4 cylinder.
A670 is the a413 that bolts to the 3.0 v6. It's the same guts in a different case.
Yeah I goofed, the A604 is what I'm thinking of. All you need is a 5 speed donor for the pedals and shifter/cables. For the pedals any 5 speed fwd car from that era will work. You can use a car shifter but it will be kind of short. I know Daytona cables would work also. Hardest part is welding in the rear bobble strut mount to the k member. It took me and a buddy part of a day to 5 speed swap a Sundance and the process is similar.

Put in a aftermarket stiff front motor mount and ignore the bobble strut controversy

PHeller PowerDork
6/14/15 12:34 p.m.

What about welding a bobble strut?

moparman76_69 UltraDork
6/14/15 12:43 p.m.

I have a couple of turbo engine harnesses laying around.

As for the bobble strut. The auto kframe doesn't have the bracket. Polybushings.com makes the bracket to weld in place.

These cars are like Lego. Chrysler used a lot of parts bin engineering in the 80s.

daytonaer HalfDork
6/14/15 1:01 p.m.

PHeller wrote: What about welding a bobble strut?

The auto k-cars have 3 motor mounts: a front at the rad core support, one at the cam belt side of the engine, and one over the trans on the drivers side.

The manual trans car added a 4th support, called a "bobble strut" at the rear of the drivetrain to limit movement. It is essentially a gas strut, and as mentioned has no bracket to mount to on an auto k-frame. Upgraded drivetrains often swap the strut for a rod with bushings, or if you stiffen the other mounts, it should be theoretically not necessary.