What Car: Sub $5k HPDE/Fun Car

Well I'm back in the market, this time looking for an affordable autocross, HPDE and weekend corner carver. It won't be a dedicated track car though, so it still has to be relatively reliable and presentable. My current daily driver is a 2015 GTI with DSG, so I'd like to now get something that's manual, more raw than the GTI and overall serve as a project car so I can stop hacking-up my daily. *Hopefully stop hacking up my daily.

Most important factors:

• Good setup for heel/toe. I need to practice this because right now I'm terrible at it. By the way, how many people actually heel toe in daily driving, I used to just ease the clutch out, but I was told that's wrong.
• Communicative and stiff chassis.
• Good steering, if the steering doesn't feel good I'm going to be extremely disappointed. One thing I can't do are cars with loose/disconnected steering feel.

I'm currently considering:

Acura Integra GSR

https://pittsburgh.craigslist.org/cto/d/1998-acura-integra-gsr/6429281534.html 

Acura RSX-S

https://pittsburgh.craigslist.org/cto/d/2003-acura-rsx-type/6404207934.html

I guess either of those two options are going to be high miles in order to fit my budget. But, it seems like they can last? Ideally, I would like to go rwd since I already have fwd, but I'm not sure I have many affordable options there.

Aside from the answer of course:

https://www.cargurus.com/Cars/inventorylisting/viewDetailsFilterViewInventoryListing.action?inventorySearchWidgetType=MY_LISTINGS#listing=181551791

Even with the Miata it'll probably be hard to find a clean example in my budget. The one above was rear-ended. 

Interested in hearing GRM's suggestions and thoughts on the cars listed. Thanks!

Early RX8s are dirt cheap. They handle well with minimal work. 

Here's your Answer, although the one you linked is a good option as well.

Don't be a fool. 

NB1 or NB2 Miata. 

Bolt on a few parts, plug in MS3, fill up with E85. Make 150whp. Add Xidas, 15x9's w/ 225/45/15's, track pads (I recommend R12/R10), a $300 spoiler, and a $15 air dam and you have a killer HPDE car. On a non-horsepower track, that combo will honestly be one of the quickest in whatever run group you're in assuming it's well driven. 

Oh and the Miata has EXCELLENT heel and toe once you bend the pedal closer. Literally just take the gas pedal and bend it a bit towards the brake pedal. Makes a world of difference. 

As far as heel-toe downshifting on the street: do it *all the time*. It's the only way to get good at it. Yes, heel-toe is easier if you're smashing the brakes, but if you get used to the fine modulation that you need to do to stop smoothly on the street, while still blipping the gas, you'll be further ahead at learning the fine modulation necessary at the limit of braking to avoid lockup while blipping the gas. I didn't realize how unable to not heel-toe I had become until the time I drove my buddy's 4-door/4wd/Cummins/dually Dodge. I pulled up at a red light, and he said, "Did you just heel-toe?" I said, "I don't know, probably."  

Even with the Miata it'll probably be hard to find a clean example in my budget. The one above was rear-ended. 

 

Interested in hearing GRM's suggestions and thoughts on the cars listed. Thanks!

 

Really? I see this posted a lot, but I'm seeing sub 5k NB2 miatas sub 4k NB1 and sub 3K NAs. And this is for reasonably clean, rust free examples. Certainly good enough for track work.  Maybe it's regional, I dunno, but the mid-atlantic does not seem to be experiencing Miata inflation like many parts of the country. 

E36 M3 is the right answer here.  Find one that's already a track rat and has the upgrades and maintenance done.  Even if you have to stretch your budget a smidge,  it's worth it.  

Non-M E36 would work well too. Look for a 95 or earlier 325is or 318is for LSD, the later 328 only came with an open diff. 

In reply to goingnowherefast :

I never knew about that trick! I was always trying to extend the brake pedal to the right. Thanks!

And yeah, there are many, many nice Miatas in that price range, at least here in the SF area. 

$5000 would get you a C4 Corvette with the Z51 sport suspension. Those had one of the fastest steering racks I've seen. 

Or an E36 325 or 328. A bit more civilized than the Corvette, but checks all your boxes.

goingnowherefast said:

Don't be a fool. 

 

NB1 or NB2 Miata. 

 

Bolt on a few parts, plug in MS3, fill up with E85. Make 150whp. Add Xidas, 15x9's w/ 225/45/15's, track pads (I recommend R12/R10), a $300 spoiler, and a $15 air dam and you have a killer HPDE car. On a non-horsepower track, that combo will honestly be one of the quickest in whatever run group you're in assuming it's well driven. 

We need to determine if $5k is the ENTIRE budget or just the car budget. 

XIDAs/wheels/tires.............that's $3k right there. GOing to need a roll bar to run with most groups, there is another $500. And on and on.

Not even going with Xida's yet its going to cost about 4600 bucks to prep my "1200 dollar copart" miata to be track ready

Rollbar, Seat, Hardtop, Coil Overs, Wheels/Tires, Brakes, Swaybars, Harnesses etc. Xida's are 2500+ by themselves with  the recommended 800/500 setup and helper springs.

not saying its not an EXCELLENT answer its just the cost of the above is pretty much going to be similar for almost every car to make it track ready ontop of the purchase price. However with a non miata you don't need a rollbar/hardtop which is going to save you about 1500 bucks. And could do a couple events also without a seat/harnesses etc

Biggest issue I am having lately with E36 non M etc is a lot of them have been found by the dorifto stance crowd at this point and are beatup even worse than most miata's I have seen. I also imagine they need at least 2-3k worth of non back maintenance type items to be track ready

I think the argument is that normally I don't count mods into the total car price because those are done progressively throughout ownership when they are deemed "needed". We all know that just a Miata with pads and fluid is at least safe to HPDE. 

I like the non-M E36 suggestion but I too have a hard time finding them in my area for the price. (looking right now on craigslist). Also how are the powertrains on those? Miata's you literally just add oil and they run forever. 

goingnowherefast said:

I think the argument is that normally I don't count mods into the total car price because those are done progressively throughout ownership when they are deemed "needed". We all know that just a Miata with pads and fluid is at least safe to HPDE. 

 

I like the non-M E36 suggestion but I too have a hard time finding them in my area for the price. (looking right now on craigslist). Also how are the powertrains on those? Miata's you literally just add oil and they run forever. 

Yup, I think I am going to try the R12/R10 Gloc brakesetup from 949, The more aggressive pad is for the front right? You can definitely track a miata with just tires/pads/fluid/rollbar. And yeah the drivetrain is simple to work on yourself and reliable as reliable gets. I've been using searchtempest to look at craigslist all around my area, pretty handy when searching for used parts also. This is my run and drive copart win. Bid of 1200 bucks 1700 with fees (didnt know about those) and 300 bucks for delivery. So for 2 grand I got a non leaking softtop, crappily non stock painted orange miata that actually seems to run great but has tires that need replacing, brakes that could be done, a check engine light, torn seat, some body damage etc.

However as a starting point for a track car almost all of that does not matter to me

penultimeta said:

Even with the Miata it'll probably be hard to find a clean example in my budget. The one above was rear-ended. 

 

Interested in hearing GRM's suggestions and thoughts on the cars listed. Thanks!

 

 

Really? I see this posted a lot, but I'm seeing sub 5k NB2 miatas sub 4k NB1 and sub 3K NAs. And this is for reasonably clean, rust free examples. Certainly good enough for track work.  Maybe it's regional, I dunno, but the mid-atlantic does not seem to be experiencing Miata inflation like many parts of the country. 

I think the problem is, aside from Vettes and Mustangs it's hard to find anything within my area, cheap or otherwise. Now, if I expand my search to include Virginia, about a 4-5 hour drive, then I'll be able to find plenty of examples, which is what I'll probably end up doing.

In reply to z31maniac :

$5k would be the budget for the initial purchase. The cheaper the car is to maintain, mod and track the better though.

Jaynen said:

 

Swap fenders, hood & trunk to do a knockoff of that special edition VW Golf... 

Fbody

C4

E36

Miata

Are the g35s that cheap yet?

Moostang

240sx

goingnowherefast said:

I think the argument is that normally I don't count mods into the total car price because those are done progressively throughout ownership when they are deemed "needed". We all know that just a Miata with pads and fluid is at least safe to HPDE. 

 

I like the non-M E36 suggestion but I too have a hard time finding them in my area for the price. (looking right now on craigslist). Also how are the powertrains on those? Miata's you literally just add oil and they run forever. 

The M50/52 (2.5/2.8 liter) is pretty damn stout, provided the cooling system is maintained. Consider the water pump, radiator, t-stat, expansion tank, ect maintenance items on a 100k interval. Be wary of cars that have had overheating problems. VANOS equipped cars can develop a rattle in the cam phasing unit thingy, but there are kits out there to rebuild them. Overall  though they're well built, reliable, long lived iron block motors.  Mine was still rock solid at ~210k when it was totaled, felt like it had another 100k in it easy.

I'm not aware of any major issues in the gearbox, though shifter feel isnt as good as, say, a Miata or Honda. Driveshaft center bearings and guibo (rubber vibration damper in the driveshaft) can go bad and cause vibrations. The rest of the drivetrain is supposedly stout enough to hold up to an LSx, so should have no problems with the stock I6. Diffs are easily swapped for better ratio or LSD units.

The rear multilink suspension has a metric E36 M3load of bushings that go bad and get sloppy with age, but works really well. Front is good old fashioned McStruts. Steering feel and feedback is superb and overall handling is very neutral and predictable at the limit. Easy car to drive fast. 

MadScientistMatt said:

$5000 would get you a C4 Corvette with the Z51 sport suspension. Those had one of the fastest steering racks I've seen. 

Or an E36 325 or 328. A bit more civilized than the Corvette, but checks all your boxes.

I've been watching this Vette for several months now. Keeps dropping in price...

https://harrisburg.craigslist.org/cto/d/1986-chevrolet-corvette-z51/6409704320.html

I would look for a vette/cramit/stang. The thirst for power is expensive and difficult. Why not just buy something already quick and make it handle well. 

This, some 15x7.5's and 205/50 RE71's and a lot of gas. They have a great chassis, stupid light and are boost friendly. gut the critter, get it around 2200lbs with driver and get 150 reliable whp and call it a day. 

Bobcougarzillameister said:

This, some 15x7.5's and 205/50 RE71's and a lot of gas. They have a great chassis, stupid light and are boost friendly. gut the critter, get it around 2200lbs with driver and get 150 reliable whp and call it a day. 

Definitely not an option I expected to see!

I've seen some interesting stuff come up by watching the "other" category on Racing Junk

actually I had been eyeing this one for some time, you should go check it out if its near you. Already has a cage, wheels, built motor etc. Change the fluids, probably put some new tires on it and be ready to go out of the box

Track Ready 93 Z28

In reply to Jaynen :

I mean, dedicated track car needs to be fun, handle well and be cheap and plentiful enough that when you wad it up you take the good parts off and walk away.