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stuart in mn
stuart in mn UberDork
4/8/12 11:27 a.m.

I'd say your e30 has another 100,000 miles left in it, just keep driving it and save your money.

njansenv
njansenv Dork
4/8/12 7:59 p.m.

Honestly, it wouldn't take long for a more efficient car to pay itself off. In a similar situation, but with only 100miles a day, I bought a TDI a year ago after commuting for a while in various E30s then an E36 M3 (which had a similar cost/mile). I've never looked back, and can't imagine a better highway commuter (when total cost is a factor) than an ALH TDI. (Golf/Jetta, 2000ish-2003). I've averaged JUST under 50mpg since I bought it, it's only needed routine maintenance, and its smooth quiet (boring) ride is just what the doctor ordered for highway commuting.

clutchsmoke
clutchsmoke Reader
4/8/12 8:19 p.m.

I vote TDI. Finding a decent 1st gen Insight is pretty tough these days.

OldGray320i
OldGray320i Reader
4/8/12 11:16 p.m.

I'll add a TDI to the potentials list. Somebody mentioned another 100k left in the old e30, but I don't know if I want to chance being stuck in the middle of the desert during the summer. That goes for anything older than a few years, really (so a TDI might be pushing it...).

There's not a lot between Tucson and Benson (the city in between Tucson and Sierra Vista), nor is there much between Benson and SV.

As we discussed it over the last day or so, it looks like I will try the REALLY EARLY van pool for a bit. Given my penchant for not getting up early, I'm not sure that concept will last.

Sounds like the Elantra is doing pretty well for those who own one, I think a test drive is in order.

Oh, and the motorcycle route won't work either - one, I haven't ridden one since I was 12, and two, a bike in the summer is like riding in a blast furnace (die hard riders, one of whom I worked with at my old job, wouldn't do it...).

This will be interesting....

jrw1621
jrw1621 PowerDork
4/8/12 11:52 p.m.

Cherry pick the car pool. Join in and see if you can find another person who's schedule is similar to yours that may want to split the load. You intend to spend $500 so finding one more person would make that $250 each which is only $50 more than the carpool but that little extra spending could get you back some sleep time.

Joe Gearin
Joe Gearin Associate Publisher
4/9/12 9:29 a.m.

Check out the 4cyl Fusion with a manual. They are as comfortable and stress-free on the hwy as the Malibu, but more fun in the twisties. They are also completely invisible to the police.

Whenever I travel, the Fusion is my rental of choice. They are surprisingly good cars.

Klayfish
Klayfish Dork
4/9/12 10:21 a.m.

Great thread. I'm in a similar boat myself. Current DD ('96 Volvo wagon) is averaging 23mpg. I've had it for one year and put 22k miles on it. With gas at $4/gallon, I'm starting to really notice how thirsty it is. My wife's currend DD is a Honda Fit. She's had it for 2 years and put 40k miles on it. She came out of an '03 Bonneville SSEi. We've calculated that she's saving about $2k per year just in fuel cost. I want some of that action!

I had planned on replacing the Volvo later this year or early next, but thinking about pushing that up and making a move now. At the top of my "responsible car" list is the Mazda 2. I can get one for $14k. My commute is 25 miles each way of suburban country road commuting. I should be able to get 37+mpg out of it. The fuel savings are hard to pass up. Plus I've heard over and over how much fun the Mazda 2 is to drive.

jrw1621
jrw1621 PowerDork
4/9/12 10:53 a.m.

In reply to Klayfish:

At 22k miles per year, my first thought is that you do not drive enough to offset a new car purchase.

To attempt to verify my initial opinion I then went to www.fueleconomy.gov
From there, "find a car" ('96 volvo 850 turbo automatic wagon)
Then "compare" to '12 Mazda 2 manual
This will show an annual fuel expense for each vehicle. From there you can "customize."
I changed to 22k miles a year but left the mix at 55% city.

With these numbers, it returned a savings of $1,700 per year or $141 per month.
Now, after saving $141, you will have to offset a car payment (lets say $200) and increases in insurance (lets say $20.) $141 - 200 - 20 = an expense of 79 per month The will be some initial saving in Volvo repair so if you can save $79 per month in Volvo repair, it is a break-even situation.
The Mazda may still be a good deal, I just wanted to dispell the myth that new cars save tons of money.
Play with the "personalize" function and you can run some different scenarios such as higher gas prices or more hyw driving.

pres589
pres589 Dork
4/9/12 11:06 a.m.

In reply to jrw1621:

This guy knows what time it is. I ran the numbers like this and with only about 6500 miles a year spent in a car (the rest on my motorcycle), it would take a few years for me to pay for a hypothetical $2500 Mazda 323 vs. my current Oldsmobile. Which made it easier to rationalize buying a Mustang...

Klayfish
Klayfish Dork
4/9/12 11:43 a.m.

In reply to jrw1621:

I agree, I probably should have worded it better in my post. To go from an old beater car to a brand new car is very rarely a money saving proposition no matter the fuel economy. A beater car is roughly $1000, a brand new car is $14k+ to start. So to actually save that $13k+ is very difficult, unless you drive a ton of miles. But I was going to buy myself another car in the fairly new future anyway. While I like my Volvo, I've been looking forward to getting something built this millenium. That's just the "I want a new(er) car" syndrome that a lot of people get. So I was going to be shelling out cash anyway. But the savings in fuel of a car like the Mazda 2 would help offset the payments for it, so the net expense would be significantly lower. Like your numbers above, maybe it would be $79/month net, perhaps a bit less. Not a bad cost for driving a new car. But like you said, it's not a true "savings".

jrw1621
jrw1621 PowerDork
4/9/12 11:55 a.m.

My posting was intended to be less about challenging your personal logic and more about presenting the argument using your data. More intended for people like my sister who use the logic that gas is going up so I have to spend thousands to "save money."

It is interesting now to see all the pickups listed on CL and to see the wild claims of high mpg on 4 cyl vehicles.

ProDarwin
ProDarwin SuperDork
4/9/12 12:18 p.m.
jrw1621 wrote: My posting was intended to be less about challenging your personal logic and more about presenting the argument using your data. More intended for people like my sister who use the logic that gas is going up so I have to spend thousands to "save money." It is interesting now to see all the pickups listed on CL and to see the wild claims of high mpg on 4 cyl vehicles.

My approach is a spreadsheet I created... I calculate the total ownership cost of a vehicle including gas cost and depreciation. You are correct that buying a new car will rarely be a fiscally responsible option. However buying a 5 year old car to replace a 20 yr old car quickly becomes a good option.

I can post it if anyone (especially the OP) is interested. At 40k miles a year, the gas mileage of a 5ish year old Civic Hybrid, TDI, or Prius will "pay for itself" at an alarming rate. Some quick estimates in the spreadsheet show a $10,500 2005 Prius @ 45mpg beating out a $3000 E30 @ 30mpg in less than one year.

amg_rx7
amg_rx7 HalfDork
4/9/12 12:22 p.m.

Your collective "arguments" don't include any potential maintenance needs associated with the older car (tires, brakes, a/c charge, suspension work etc).

With the new car, your maintenance would be limited to a couple of oil changes for a 2-3 years until it is time for brakes.

failboat
failboat Dork
4/9/12 12:36 p.m.

My wife is driving a 2012 Focus, we are getting about the same MPG numbers as jstand and his new Elantra. which is to say mid-higher 30s in the warmer weather. It was more like 33-34 mpg in the winter temperatures.

Its a nice car, comfortable, fun in the corners, nice materials inside, has nice features, etc, and I do like the engine/auto DCT combo....but I feel like my 2009 Hyundai Accent (cheapest car you could buy in the US that year...) was put together better, less squeaks/rattles, much better fitment of panels and trim in particular.

definately be aware of what new cars are offering in terms of what you need to do in case of a flat tire....a lot of them are just giving you patch kits and a pump, no spare tire. my wife didnt like that at all, the focus came with a spare though. She did have a LOL a few weeks ago when she saw a Kia Soul owner at the side of the road berkeleying with the tire patch kit....

jstand
jstand Reader
4/9/12 7:48 p.m.

While fuel economy was considered in my decision, it wasn't the only factor.

One of the big factors was time, and how much the commute eats into free time. With an 8 year old and a soon to be 3 year old, I want to be able to choose how I spend my time off, and not be forced to spend it making repairs. Luckily I'm in a position now where I was able to go with a new car, but because up to now that wasn't an option I appreciate the convenience of not having to worry about making repairs for 2-3 years at least.

After spending 3 hours a day in the car, will you really want to spend any time working on it? Especially if it's something you HAVE to do, so you can get to work the next day?

I've been there and it's not fun working on a repair into the early hours of the morning so you can get to work the next day.

Wrenching on a project car is different, you do it because you want to and if you don't finish on Sunday you can wait until next weekend to finish.

Vigo
Vigo SuperDork
4/9/12 9:08 p.m.

Maybe im a jackass for saying this, but i stopped reading after the part where you said you were unemployed and wanted to spend 12-20k on a car... does not compute, imo.

dj06482
dj06482 GRM+ Memberand HalfDork
4/9/12 9:09 p.m.

jstand brings up a great point. When you have a long commute, fuel economy is an important part of the equation, but reliability is a big plus. I commute 75 miles each way (about a 65/35 split with the majority of it on secondary roads), and having something that's comfortable, gets good mileage, and requires a minimum of care and feeding is a big plus. Our '06 RAV4 gets about 24 MPG in this type of driving, with the benefits of a comfortable ride, a higher driving position (to see over traffic), AWD for the winter, plenty of space for two kids, and a pretty powerful V6. We purchased it new a few years back when my wife was doing a similar commute, and I've kept up with all of the maintenance since then. It was passed on to me once we got a minivan, and it's been a good car. We've racked up 90K on it so far, with hopefully many more to go.

I've been following this thread because once we're ready to replace the RAV4, I'm planning to look into something that can get better mileage. A newer car with better mileage could pay for itself over time, but I've run the numbers and it would take a while to pay off, and I'd have to put up some cash up front.

jrw1621
jrw1621 PowerDork
4/9/12 9:21 p.m.

In reply to dj06482:
For you and your SUV appreciation, the new Mazda CX-5 and its 35 mpg may be the right upgrade.

dj06482
dj06482 GRM+ Memberand HalfDork
4/9/12 10:10 p.m.

@jrw1621 -

I actually have my eye on the CX-5, there's a 6 speed manual available now (FWD-only), and a rumored turbodiesel model in the future. My guess is that I'll end up with a regular car the next time, but who knows. A lot will depend if the car I get will be strictly a commuter, or used for hauling kids around on the weekend. If it's the latter, I'm interested in seeing what the new 2013 Ford Fusions are like. The plug-in hybrid with the regular hybrid engine as a backup sounds pretty incredible...

jstand
jstand Reader
4/9/12 11:20 p.m.
Vigo wrote: Maybe im a jackass for saying this, but i stopped reading after the part where you said you were unemployed and wanted to spend 12-20k on a car... does not compute, imo.

To Vigo's point, these no reason not to try the carpool or run you current vehicle until you are sure you like the job and the company likes you.

Even then you can run your current vehicle until it gets to the point where it's unreliable or the to-do list of repairs/ maintenance is longer than you have time/patience. That will give you time to shop around and get the best deal/vehicle for your needs.

I ran the 2003 Subaru forester that the elantra replaced on my commute for a year before deciding it was time to replace it. It had been my wifes DD from new until replaced with a minivan, and needed or was soon to need tires, struts, brakes, and a/c compressor when it was traded.

The clincher was the dealer offering me $5k for the Subaru and coming down to $18k on the elantra, making it $13k net.

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