xflowgolf
xflowgolf HalfDork
7/12/13 1:53 p.m.

Theoretical discussion.

Obviously, taking the VIN tag off one vehicle and sticking it on another is illegal.

However... say you have an old 70's pickup truck. It's rusty. You buy a complete "parts donor" truck that is not rusty.

How many parts can you swap from the donor truck to the rusty truck before it's no longer the rusty truck any more? cab? bed/fenders/doors/hood?

Sort of a "grandpa's hammer" scenario... handles been replaced and the head replaced twice, but it's still grandpa's hammer.

mndsm
mndsm PowerDork
7/12/13 1:54 p.m.

I know in some states, the VIN on the engine block is the final say, in MN I believe it's the VIN on the firewall.

GameboyRMH
GameboyRMH GRM+ Memberand UltimaDork
7/12/13 1:56 p.m.

So now how much of the firewall or engine block can you replace?

Gearheadotaku
Gearheadotaku GRM+ Memberand UberDork
7/12/13 1:57 p.m.

I'm sure it varies by state, but engines get swapped more often than firewalls. Contact your local gov. agency and ask about a 'cab swap'.

edit:

maybe it would be better to ask:

I am repairing damage to the truck and the area that holds the VIN tag is being replaced with a used part. How do I proceed?

Javelin
Javelin GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
7/12/13 2:08 p.m.

This is perfectly legal and called a "rebody". You take all the oily bits of the original truck, along with it's VIN, and rebody them with the parts truck. It ends up with a "reconstructed" title, but that's fine. Laws vary state by state and almost always you need inspections, either after, or before and after.

foxtrapper
foxtrapper PowerDork
7/12/13 2:10 p.m.

Completely skipping the legal screamings that will come over the drilling and replacing of two rivets, you want to find out where the semi-hidden other VIN number(s) are. Those can come to haunt you later on.

JoeyM
JoeyM MegaDork
7/12/13 2:18 p.m.
Javelin wrote: This is perfectly legal and called a "rebody". You take all the oily bits of the original truck, along with it's VIN, and rebody them with the parts truck. It ends up with a "reconstructed" title, but that's fine. Laws vary state by state and almost always you need inspections, either after, or before and after.

This.

...and Javelin got to the heart of the matter. In some states, you need to have everything inspected before hand. In others, you don't. That means that the "correct" procedure varies from state to state. Check your local ordinances before proceeding.

BTW, this is why documenting a build on the web is good. If you mess up and somehow run afowl of the proper proceedure, you can pull up some threads to prove that you're not up to anything nefarious.

Travis_K
Travis_K UltraDork
7/12/13 2:19 p.m.

I'm in California, and from everything I have ever heard on a old truck its either the cab or frame+cab, and a unibody car its at least the body shell and dash. I know someone who didnt have a problem with a dash swap with the vin number taken off, but he also saw someone have a rabbit confiscated (permanently I believe) at a show because they had done a mk3 dash swap and didnt take the old vin number off the mk3 dash.

Ojala
Ojala GRM+ Memberand HalfDork
7/12/13 2:33 p.m.

In Texas you need a form from the DMV and an inspection completed by your local police. Rebodies and re-titling is fairly common. In Fort Worth at least, the inspections are done once a month at the auto pound. The vin, engine, etc is all documented and confirmed not to be stolen.

Rarely cars are confiscated during the inspection for having stolen parts on them. It is far more common for the trailer, that the car is brought in on, to have been reported stolen.

stuart in mn
stuart in mn PowerDork
7/12/13 3:16 p.m.
xflowgolf wrote: However... say you have an old 70's pickup truck. It's rusty. You buy a complete "parts donor" truck that is not rusty.

If you have a complete donor vehicle that's not rusty, why take parts off it to put on the rusty one? Why not just use the one that's not rusty in the first place?

skierd
skierd Dork
7/12/13 3:24 p.m.
stuart in mn wrote:
xflowgolf wrote: However... say you have an old 70's pickup truck. It's rusty. You buy a complete "parts donor" truck that is not rusty.
If you have a complete donor vehicle that's not rusty, why take parts off it to put on the rusty one? Why not just use the one that's not rusty in the first place?

Old rusty has a clear title in your name. Donor vehicle was sold as a "parts car" with no title and no practical way to get a title (last titled owner died before properly transfering it to the current owner, can't be found, no records, etc).

oldopelguy
oldopelguy Dork
7/12/13 3:39 p.m.

I'm in that process myself right now and so far it's not so bad. Biggest deal is needing receipts or bills of sale for all the major parts.

Neither my cab or my frame came with a title because it had to be turned in when the rest of the vehicles went to the scrap yard. Supposedly this won't be a problem for the title.

My biggest concern is actually the insurance so it can be driven, since I am not sure what year or model they are going to call it after the inspection. Some times they use body year because that's what it looks like ('68 Dodge crew cab) and some times they go off the chassis ('97 Suburban.)

Javelin
Javelin GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
7/12/13 4:25 p.m.

I tried to pull up the Michigan DMV's process for this for the OP, my science above their website sucks. Here's their sole page on older cars.

Edit: Ah hell, Michigan assigns a new state VIN, which will severely impact it's value (if that matters to you). Here's the breakdown: Link Notice that rebodying a truck is one of the specific examples.

irish44j
irish44j UberDork
7/12/13 4:29 p.m.

Knurled
Knurled GRM+ Memberand UberDork
7/12/13 4:56 p.m.
xflowgolf wrote: Theoretical discussion. Obviously, taking the VIN tag off one vehicle and sticking it on another is illegal. However... say you have an old 70's pickup truck. It's rusty. You buy a complete "parts donor" truck that is not rusty. How many parts can you swap from the donor truck to the rusty truck before it's no longer the rusty truck any more? cab? bed/fenders/doors/hood?

IIRC it's legally the piece with the VIN on it. On most vehicles it is the bodyshell, on some vehicle it is the truck's cab. On old Broncos it is the glovebox door.

Knurled
Knurled GRM+ Memberand UberDork
7/12/13 4:59 p.m.
stuart in mn wrote: If you have a complete donor vehicle that's not rusty, why take parts off it to put on the rusty one? Why not just use the one that's not rusty in the first place?

Old restoration project is a genuine Boss 302 that is mostly rot. Complete donor is a 6-cylinder fastback.

Or...

Old restoration project is a Car With A History. Check out the restorations at mat.fi. Notice that many of them detail VIN and other serial numbers. I think half the reason they'd detail the restorations is to prove that a car they restored still is that car. But it's kinda funny. "Look, a 100% clean original Celica notchback! And here comes Mr. Plasma Cutter..."

Kenny_McCormic
Kenny_McCormic SuperDork
7/12/13 6:16 p.m.

Intent plays a big role here too, replacing everything in a car but the dash and cowl to un stealitizize the donor is why all the laws exist. Replacing most everything but the dash and cowl in something special and mostly rust/smashed for the sake of saving the special vin number, is different, but still touchy. Take any old Ferrari for example, the VIN plate is all that's worth anything, some of them have been totaled out multiple times, and are still worth stupid money.

Javelin
Javelin GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
7/12/13 6:30 p.m.

In reply to Kenny_McCormic:

Race cars are a whole 'nother ball game. So may Porsche 917's and 956's were wrecked and rebuilt that the same chassis numbers are now 2 complete cars, and both are legitimate!

The intent part is why some states do the "before" inspection, or require the documentation and receipts. My Javelin wasn't a rebody at all but I still had to go through a pretty gnarly inspection for the title (abandoned vehicle to running vehicle) to make sure I hadn't put any stolen parts on it. My receipt collection up to the inspection date is now all stamped with a WA State Police inspection sticker. Kinda cool, actually.

xflowgolf
xflowgolf HalfDork
7/15/13 9:15 a.m.
skierd wrote:
stuart in mn wrote: If you have a complete donor vehicle that's not rusty, why take parts off it to put on the rusty one? Why not just use the one that's not rusty in the first place?
Old rusty has a clear title in your name. Donor vehicle was sold as a "parts car" with no title and no practical way to get a title (last titled owner died before properly transfering it to the current owner, can't be found, no records, etc).

Yep. This was where my head was at.

There's more than a few cheap dry rust free southern trucks sitting around (many without drivetrains) that title's are long gone, and can be bought with a bill of sale only. I figured after a VIN check to verify not stolen, I legally own all the parts, I have a bill of sale, and I want to put all the sheet metal on a legally titled running but ugly truck... just didn't want to run afoul of the law more than necessary.

I imagine it's generally don't ask don't tell... but no reason to stir the pot.

novaderrik
novaderrik UberDork
7/15/13 2:01 p.m.

a while back- 10 years ago, maybe- someone "rebuilt" a 1969 ZL1 Camaro by using the original firewall and "building" the car around that by using another solid Camaro shell.. the reality is that it was just a base 6 cylinder Camaro with the ZL1's firewall welded to it, but legally it was an original ZL1 Camaro that had some new body panels welded to it.. they didn't do a "perfect" restoration, as the ZL1 had been made into a drag car in the early 70's, so they did put the lightened doors and a few of the other modified parts on the newly "restored" shell. they were very proud of their work, and they sold it for a lot of money at the Barrett Jackson auction as a restored original "day 2" ZL1 Camaro...

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