Time for some sillyness...............it's Friday, I'm on a break, and in a silly mood. We shall label this thread the Junk Science Indy GP .
Several years ago I ran on the same layout that was also used by the pre-war cars. Peter Giddings was running his GP winning 1932 Alfa Romeo. My Datsun was actually several seconds a lap faster. So this got me thinking about said topic question.
For my F500 I used the COTA F1 lap record vs the F500 lap record calculated that as a percentage and then used the records of Monaco lap times (as the slowest track it gives me the best chance).
For the Datsun; I could likely win the Indy 500 as late as 1932 and the same for Monaco.
For the Formula 500; 1952 for Indy and 1950 for Monaco.
I have virtual versions of my track cars, so with the right courses loaded into the simulator I could make it a fairly practical test...
H-Production Fiat 850 wins the Indy 500. Film at . . . 11 days later.
In reply to L5wolvesf :
Larry in 1926 the lap average was 86 mph.................I think the Fiat could manange that.
The first time I drove the Nurburgring, I would have been competitive in the 1930s :)
I was in a borrowed 1.6 Miata and had no track experience, so it's fair to say I was leaving a little time on the table. But I thought that was hilarious.
Tom1200 said:
In reply to L5wolvesf :
Larry in 1926 the lap average was 86 mph.................I think the Fiat could manange that.
Wikipdia lists the race winning average speed as 95.9mph for 1926, and I think that includes pit stops and caution laps. The pole speed that year was a four lap average of 111.7 mph. It's probably harder than you think for a regular-ish to run 500 miles close to flat-out basically non-stop. Think of a track day session that lasts 4-5 hours instead of 20-25 minutes.
In reply to Keith Tanner :
It is completely hilarious which is why I started this thread.................think what you could've done with a Formula Ford from the 90s!
With the old engine in my racecar I would be competitive at Indy until about 1920.
It would be cool to see my 1979 Diesel Mercedes compete against the old Cummins diesel Indy car. Apparently it average 86mph in the oval, whereas I could(RIP that engine) hit 90 on a twisty road course
My Mercedes E class might be able to win at the 1992 Indy 500, if I don't have to abide by all the cautions 
Hell, I think the pace car would have finished around 22nd place, IIRC.
CrashDummy said:
Tom1200 said:
In reply to L5wolvesf :
Larry in 1926 the lap average was 86 mph.................I think the Fiat could manange that.
Wikipdia lists the race winning average speed as 95.9mph for 1926, and I think that includes pit stops and caution laps. The pole speed that year was a four lap average of 111.7 mph. It's probably harder than you think for a regular-ish to run 500 miles close to flat-out basically non-stop. Think of a track day session that lasts 4-5 hours instead of 20-25 minutes.
Modern cars probably would be ok as long as the revs weren't too high. I ran a focus diesel WOT for hours on the Autobahn at it's terminal velocity of 125mph on flat ground.
I've thought about this too and was really hoping there were some spec miata races held at former f1 tracks in current configuration. Or like if you could compare stock cars at say VIR lighting lap vs old F1 and indy cars.
Someone check my math because I'm not sure if I know what I'm talking about.
I looked up the SCCA lap records for Watkins Glen and the all-time record listed is a Formula Atlantic from 2019. It would have qualified towards the front of the pack in 1971, when the current configuration was introduced. Wikipedia says the track configuration is the same but I don't know if that's the same or "the same."
Since FA cars date back to the 70s, I assume that the chassis is inferior to F1 cars of the era. I also assume it's way down on power. Is it just making up that time with tire technology?
If so, that would be a wild race to watch -- a wildly underpowered car that just corners like nobody's business.
In reply to steronz :
In 2007 we had a Indy car race in downtown Las Vegas.
Formula Atlantic ran along with vintage (76-82) F1 cars
The F1 cars were driven by the likes of Bobby Rahal & Arie Luyendyk. The Formula Atlantic cars were slightly faster then the early 80s F1 cars.
Set up the simulator with the Monaco F1 course from 2017 with my "digital twin" cars and did some laps with each until one looked decent:
ZN6: 2:07.038
AE92: 2:11.399
Then looked at the times and realized I'd completely wasted my time - the course had changed over the decades, and the slowest of the top F1 qualifying times ever recorded was 1:50.2...
https://youtu.be/eZMlp9K5PBw
Anyway here's one video that uploaded before I figured that out:
Edit: Might as well post the 2nd one:
Next attempt, the Indy oval. This was quite interesting, the speeds and times of the AE92 and Toyobaru were a lot closer than I was expecting, it seems that the skinnier tires and small slippery body of the AE92 allow it to get up to similar speeds as the Toyobaru on the oval with a little over half the power. The AE92 handled it easily and my first flying lap was a good one, I did find that I had to lift a bit in the corners to get it to rotate through however. The Toyobaru took some more experimentation, 6th was too high for the oval, so I ended up driving it in 5th close to the redline all the way around - if I were doing this IRL, I'd have to try a different gear strategy to keep the FA20 from singing the song of its people, maybe 5th in the corners and 6th on the straights. I could stay flat in the corners with this car.
So the times. The AE92 got 1:12.920:
And the 86 got 1:11.218:
The fastest lap of the first Indy 500 in 1950 was 1:09.77, so with a lot of practice and good defense maybe I could've won the first Indy 500 with the 86...
I was told by someone who loved these sort of exercises that my 2010 ACR would be competitive at the 1974 F1 level of tracks if that era. That would be me on pump gas and slicks. This is a car I used to daily drive. Modern stuff is fast, modern aero is amazing.
This of course would not be with me behind the wheel. I was 5 seconds a lap slower then my instructor once at a training day and got sick and threw up acting as ballest for him in the car.
Mndsm
MegaDork
2/4/23 1:32 p.m.
If they held it in January and the cars were on slicks still, my liberty might have a chance.
So US Formula 4 runs laps at VIR in the 1:57 range, would put them roughly 4th in last years GRM ultimate track car challenge.
In reply to GameboyRMH :
Very cool; now we just need to beam you and the car back in time.
Where would a 1.6L Miata land?
My only contribution is that I'd be competitive longer on the road course than at Indy.
A lot of either would come down to modern tires. I bet my ITA Neon would have been pretty competitive at Monaco well into the 50s. Indy, maybe the late 20s. Any track with a mile long straight would be trouble for me.
Superkarts were running 1:25's at Mid-O last year and 2009 IMSA/Rolex GT cars were running 1:30's :Mind Blown:
What was the first year of those races?
My 06 Express Van still wouldn't win.
Curtis73 (Forum Supporter) said:
What was the first year of those races?
My 06 Express Van still wouldn't win.
Can it average 75 MPH for 500 miles including stops for gas? If so, you'd win the first Indy 500
My 175cc shifter kart would win any Monaco Grand Prix up to the time of ground effect (1977) if I could use a pressurized nitrogen-over-fuel jug to fill the tank in less than a second, and it would do it on one set of tires. It would not win Indy; until 1953 the brick surface would not allow me to finish, and after that I would fail to qualify.
