When is it time to switch cars (Rallycross related)?

I've been rallycrossing my Neon for several years now in Modified FWD.  At this point, it is pretty well developed, the suspension could use a refresh, but that's not surprising given it use.  I'm regionally competitive (won the class in 2016), with the exception of wae stomping all over me in his turbo Neon, when it's running.  At most events, I can usually pull off better raw times than a lot of the AWD competition (light weight, decent power, and appropriate tires can do wonders).  However, I'm feeling a bit stuck in a rut, as the best drivers in SA, PA, MA, and MR still tend to be ahead of me.  I find myself wondering if it's the car or the driver (probably both). 

If I keep the Neon, I could probably pick up .5-1 second on course by switching to custom axles, so I could put power down sooner coming out of turns without risking breakage.  Anything else to pick up a significant amount of time will either be expensive or reduce the car's reliability (I pride myself on having a car that doesn't tend to break, was very bummed I had one failure this past season), and I'd rather not go there.

It likely won't be able to happen this coming season, due to finances, but I've been considering a 2002-2007 WRX or STI, or even stretching and trying to find an Evo X.  Especially after seeing one in action on course earlier this year.  It'd be nice seeing how I stand against the sharper edge of the competition.  Problem is, I spend enough time making sure my Neon is solid enough to come out and play, I'm guessing any turbo AWD toy will require even more attention, not to mention the buy in cost.

After the $2017 GRM Challenge, I'm considering going the other direction, too.  We couldn't get our truck together in time, so we picked up a stockish Miata, and had a lot of fun, finishing 25th out of the 40 cars that made it, so not great, but not embarrassing either.  This has me thinking maybe I should just pick up something wholly inappropriate, like a P71 Crown Vic or a Caprice, and just go have fun in SR or PR for a while.  In this situation, anything other than dead last could be considered a victory.  The biggest negative I see with this plan is that rallycross courses have been getting faster and rougher since I began, so I'd probably still need to spend the same amount of time prepping and repairing as I would on the Neon.

What's caused you to decide you need to move up (or down) to another car in racing? 

TL:DR - I'm tired of being almost good enough, can't decide if I should stay where I am and work on my current car more, or move up or down the ladder.

I know locally WRX's can be had $4-6k in decent shape.  Come join my relearning to drive a different type of car (again) madness.

The P71 is fun, but it's heavy, doesn't steer well, and with the drive by wire in the 05+, hard to modulate the throttle.

If you could make it to an AHR event next season, and I don't sell it for a truck first, I'd be happy to let you test it out for yourself. 

In my 2 events of experience, it would be a great car if it lost about 1000lbs. That said, my best runs of the day put me pretty close to middle of the pack in raw times. I'm not competitive enough to worry about PAX times.  (Middle of the pack meaning everyone that ran that day not by the class as SR was fairly empty)

I know where you could find a competitive Miata for sale...

I’d say go to RWD. Challenge yourself, easy to maintain, a ton of fun, a new challenge for you, and hey, beating awd times with a RWD is just embarrassing. 

EvanB said:

I know where you could find a competitive Miata for sale...

If only I was willing to pull a trailer or haul a car on a trailer right now.  Still kind of tempting.

Another possibility I've considered  is picking up a vintage 70's or 80's RWD Japanese or European car, like a Capri or some sort of Datsun.  They're kind of thin on the ground, and I can't imagine spare parts are easy to come by.   In the past, I'd also considered picking up a logbooked rally car, use it primarily for rallycross, and try to get to at least one rally per year.  My aversion to trailering a car right now puts the kibash on that idea, though.

Get a car well suited for a the class with the most competition.

eastside Utah Johnny Montana said:

EvanB said:

I know where you could find a competitive Miata for sale...

If only I was willing to pull a trailer or haul a car on a trailer right now.  Still kind of tempting.

 

 

That's about where I'm at. I need to get a trailer and tow vehicle for other car shenanigans anyway so I should just keep it.

On the other hand I really enjoy having a comfortable car to drive to events rather than trailering so I'm back to wishing I still had the 2.5rs or another WRX.

EvanB said:

I know where you could find a competitive Miata for sale...

NOOOOOOO

How else you gonna embarrass the Englands?

Knurled. said:

EvanB said:

I know where you could find a competitive Miata for sale...

NOOOOOOO

How else you gonna embarrass the Englands?

Verbally?

Or am I thinking of harass? 

If only there were a car that is fairly inexpensive to buy, even more inexpensive to rallycross (since it rarely breaks), can haul all of its own tires to the events, is fun to drive, has tons of aftrmarket support and options for engine, transmission, and diff swaps, is about the same size as a Neon but with the drive wheels at the correct end, and which is competitive with Miatas....

Come visit DC region, we'll help you figure it out....

eastside Utah Johnny Montana said:

EvanB said:

I know where you could find a competitive Miata for sale...

If only I was willing to pull a trailer or haul a car on a trailer right now.  Still kind of tempting.

 

Another possibility I've considered  is picking up a vintage 70's or 80's RWD Japanese or European car, like a Capri or some sort of Datsun.  They're kind of thin on the ground, and I can't imagine spare parts are easy to come by.   In the past, I'd also considered picking up a logbooked rally car, use it primarily for rallycross, and try to get to at least one rally per year.  My aversion to trailering a car right now puts the kibash on that idea, though.

as I'm sure you're aware....stage rally cars are required to be street legal / street drivable. So there is really no need for a trailer. Trailers are for legitimate modified class rallycross cars that don't have things like lights and glass.....!

Also, if you are shooting for overall FTDs, you won't get them in a stage car, genearally. Too much weight, and what is good on stage suspension-wise is usually not good at rallycross.

In reply to irish44j :

I assume by "come to DC region" you mean "come to DC region if you want to find an E30 that has floors and is under $3500".

The main problem with running in Mod Rear in Ohio is fourfold.  John, John, Evan, and me.   I think I am done harassing everyone else in PF and will go back to running MR next year.   Might not get the black car rebuilt until late next season but the red car is almost done and I'm going to use it as a testbed for some unconventional suspension ideas.  And the problem with running any car over 10 or so years old in Stock or Prepared is that it can be ridiculously expensive to keep an older car legal for those classes.  Which is rather why Mod is so popular, and I continue to do what I can to promote "repair expedience" allowances in the restricted classes.  (And which is why the black car has been neglected, since I poured way too much money/effort in trying to retain the red car's Prepared legalness)

Honestly, I wouldn't mind trying to run a MF car.  I have some neat ideas with respect to making the suspension work.  I think Leon Drake kinda proved some of them, but one example is insufficiently scientifically rigorous.

EvanB said:

Knurled. said:

EvanB said:

I know where you could find a competitive Miata for sale...

NOOOOOOO

How else you gonna embarrass the Englands?

Verbally?

Or am I thinking of harass? 

Well, in the times you don't beat them in times, you always win by having a car that doesn't look like it had the ugly stick rammed up its arse sideways.

Did I mention, ever, that part of the reason I've been considering this Absurdly Small In the Grand Scheme Of Things yet Still Major Stepping Stone purchase is that I want to see what it's like to tow to events?  It isn't all about the boost and leather.  Mostly, but not all.

Also, Oktavia comes with all of the towing accessories, meaning the 1 7/8" raised tongue/ball for the tire trailer, AND the 2" drop tongue/ball that I used to tow #74 that time.  I should probably not mention this in a public forum.

Hows your driver mod looking? That kind of money easily funds a 2 day at a decent rally school, if you havent done one already. 

Gaunt596 said:

Hows your driver mod looking? That kind of money easily funds a 2 day at a decent rally school, if you havent done one already. 

Valid point.  I’ve thought of hitting O’Neill sometime for fun, but hadn’t really considered it for rallycross training, since I wasn’t sure how much would translate over to the lower speeds and near constant cornering.

What does stage rally have anything at all to do with rallycross?  I would venture to say practically nothing.

Would you go to an HPDE/driver's school to be a better autocrosser?  Nope.  You'd do it to have a little fun,  but then funtime is over and it's back to being serious at the discipline that is really important.

If you want to know how to go through a bunch of bureaucratic hoops and get into various time controls on the proper minute, TSDs are way cheaper than stage rally and they are almost as fulfilling, after you subtract the expense and pain-in-the-ass factor from the driving enjoyment factor.  And this is speaking as someone who would drive 3 hours one-way to spend 20 minutes driving at legal speeds on fun roads.

I really hope rally school doesn’t cover rules minutiae/bureaucratic hoops needed to enter a rally and focuses on the driving.   The difference in driving styles concerns me a bit, but rallycrosses have been getting faster, so I’m wondering if there is starting to be some more relevance.  If I were to get a rally car, then doing a rally school would make more sense.

MR and the various AWD classes in our region(s) all tend to have at least one or more good drivers, but then, so does MF, I just happen to be one of them, but I’m driving a car that is objectively faster than most of my in class competition.  Subarus (with WRXs at the top of the field) tend to be the weapon of choice around here for AWD, Miatas for RWD, and a variety for FWD.

I started telling people I'd consider offers on my AE92 the moment it was clear that it wasn't class-competitive anymore. Sounds like your Neon still is though.

If you really want to know if it is the car or the driver, put a faster driver in your car.  

It can be a mutually beneficial experience.

cghstang said:

If you really want to know if it is the car or the driver, put a faster driver in your car.  

It can be a mutually beneficial experience.

Thanks Chris.

cghstang said:

If you really want to know if it is the car or the driver, put a faster driver in your car.  

It can be a mutually beneficial experience.

When are you coming out to a rallycross?  IIRC, you were one of the faster FWD drivers...

I'd be happy to have wae drive my car, but he really likes his turbo grenade.

GameboyRMH said:

I started telling people I'd consider offers on my AE92 the moment it was clear that it wasn't class-competitive anymore. Sounds like your Neon still is though.

It is mostly there.  Needs beefier axles, a turbo, and coilovers, and at that point, it'd be almost a clone of the fastest car in the class, at least locally   I just really don't want to go down the turbo route with this car, and make it more finicky.  There's something to be said about being reasonably sure the car will make the drive home.

Edit:  I have considered the idea of a low boost turbo setup, but I think it'd be something like 50% of the the performance improvement, with 90% of the reliability concerns.

In reply to irish44j :

I should really come up to the DC region.  Before I'd even consider an E30, I'd want to see how they stand up to the Neon.  Locally, the only Miatas that are faster have forced induction.  Only regular  E30 in our region is a 318i (I think), so its power to weight ratio is not the best.  Also not sure I want to switch to a car that may also be very close in performance, would rather step up or down.

eastside Utah Johnny Montana said:

In reply to irish44j :

 Locally, the only Miatas that are faster have forced induction.  Only regular  E30 in our region is a 318i (I think), so its power to weight ratio is not the best.  

Uh oh, here we go.