Which motor for 1956 Chevy Nomad

I can't ever tell if this recurring talk about Jaguar engines is some inside joke that I'm not privvy to or what ?

I mean, seriously, a bone stock LS engine out of any pickup or van or Suburban will absolutely walk all over an obsolete English engine like that Jag and give perfect drivability, good economy, and parts for it are available at FLAPS. 

Those little engines have the heart of a lion. GM nailed it when they built them. I've had a number of big blocks and a metric ton of small blocks. But the first time I whacked the pedal on an LS engine and ran it up through the gears I swore off BBC and SBC forever. 

I used to autoslalom with a guy who also raced a heavily modified V12 XJS Coupe in GTO class.

He was beaten repeatedly and often by an ex-players series 3rd gen Trans Am.

In reply to Cousin_Eddie (Forum Supporter) :

Everyone on this forum has their own personal Cleopatra ideas.

"Queen of de Nile."

Frenchy has a strange Jag thing going on.

nimblemotorsports said:

Now I do like the idea of a big powerful Ford Motor, so like the Blasphemi 55 Chevy with the Dodge Hemi,

I could build the GetEven NotMad   car to make it right all the LS-swapped Mustangs.

You know you want to jam a blown Coyote in that.  Do Eeeet!  If nothing else but to make up for all the Ford hot rods running around with a SBC.

In reply to Cousin_Eddie (Forum Supporter) :

You are absolutely right. Jaguar stopped making that V12 ( which is a cool engine by the way). Right about the time GM stopped make their obsolete engine. ( The 350 ).   
But just like GM Jaguar built a better engine. Do you want to compare the LS against Jaguars V8?  

nimblemotorsports said:

Yep, a good 56 Nomad is worth over $50k if done well, many ask over $100k or more when super nice.

The joke is they sell for $50k...after you have sunk $75k into them. :)    

So it doesn't need a cheap engine.  I do have a 85 Corvette, the TPI 350 is too boring to put in the Nomad in my opinion.

I like the 454 BBC idea, I've never had a BBC before, and they are a classic choice.

It would be really awesome to put in that V12 LS motor...so I could sell it for $100k after I put $150k into it.   lol

 

The magic of a V12 comes not from the number of cylinders but the fact that they are at a 60 degree V.
Nearly everyone who understands engines realizes that.  
Look at Ferrari, Aston Martin,  BMW , Mercedes, Lamborghini 

frenchyd said:

In reply to Cousin_Eddie (Forum Supporter) :
But just like GM Jaguar built a better engine. Do you want to compare the LS against Jaguars V8?  

Sir, I wouldn't be interested in a Jaguar engine if the cylinder bores were filled with 100 dollar bills.  Esoteric isn't my interest. 

I'm no dreamer, I build real cars outside of internet boards. I gave the original poster a very realistic answer, which is the LS platform. It's a GM engine in a GM chassis. It fits easily without butchering the car. You can get them at any junkyard. And they run like a scalded dog. His car is, or potentially will be, an extremely valuable car that deserves respect.

Carry on with your Jaguar discussion. I'm going out to my shop to fix a Honda with inop air conditioning. This discussion is getting tedious.

In reply to nimblemotorsports :

I owe you an apology 

I get my dander up when I see a Good V12 yanked to put to put a 160 horsepower 350 Chevy in its place. Or worse a  junkyard 305. 
 

in The 70's Labor over in England fought with management and the disputes led to labor slowdowns and some loose grounds, poorly installed wires etc. 

But when you pay the price of a Jaguar  you expect everything to work perfectly. Plus Jaguar was a leader in EFI. 12 cylinders and EFI scared a lot of mechanics who didn't know either.  
 Told a new engine would be too expensive and a Chevy would be better  some fools agreed.
 
The truth's come out.  And now all the people  who try to sell Chevy conversions have to look over their shoulder .  

Next I want to put a V12 in a Black Monte Carlo with a big #3 on the doors hood and roof. 
 

SO....we are told, that the answer is always MIATA!

But NO.....

For some of us, the answer is always: JAG V12!

Ain't diversity great!?

YES, yes it is.

Rog

nimblemotorsports said:

Old school 454  or New School LS or Ford Revenge Coyote?

I have keeping my eye out for all three, so far nothing jumped out.    But I have found a 1983 Motorhome with a 454 I can get basically free with low miles.  Would need to be dismantled so a lot of labor involved to get a free 454.

None of the above.  Find a 283.

SuperDave said:

 

None of the above.  Find a 283.

He has one.

I would rebuild your 283, but use modern bearings, pistons, an up-to-date Comp Cam, an HEI, and a fuel system you're comfortable with.  It's not a big or heavy car. 4.6 liters and 300 real net horsepower is enough to make it fun. The heretical parts go elsewhere - vented disc brakes with a power tandem master cylinder, rack-and-pinion steering, and a Nissan 6-speed manual!

In reply to chaparral :

A 283 won't make 300 horsepower. The myth of the 283  hp. 283 was about advertised horsepower. You'd be very hard pressed to get 125 SAENet horsepower. 

As delivered in 1956 with points ignition, the first OHV V8 valvetrain the Chevrolet division had designed, and a fifties two-barrel carburetor, I'd agree with you. The mild ones were rated at 162 to 195 gross horsepower, south of 150 net.

What I'm suggesting is nothing like it. An adequately carbureted, HEI, modern-cammed 283 should make about 4/5 the power of a good, up-to-date 350, and 400 streetable horsepower is realistic for one of those. It'll be a bit hairier than a stock engine. If he wants better fuel mileage and near-modern drivability, he should use electronic ignition control and port injection.

In reply to chaparral I understand I just think you're being a bit optimistic about real net horsepower  

A 283 is probably the smart choice  but for resale value alone.  Keep it as close to original  as possible.  The fun part for me since I have the instruments for the Old Chevy Fuel injection would be to build one of those.

 I don't think Chevy built one until 1957  Nomad but it would be fun to show up with a 1956 with it under the hood  

Curtis73 (Forum Supporter) said:

NickD said:

If it's low-compression (which I'm 1000000% certain), you can put one of those Weiand mini-blowers on top of it. Those pop up cheap at swap meets and make decent power without requiring primo internals and a passenger to make right hand turns. They fit under some stock hoods, or a 2" cowl at the least. Or, you can go spinny boi. Richard Holdener took a '90s truck 454, left the crank, rods, pistons and main caps alone, put some mild heads and a cam on it, and then slapped a cheap home-brew turbo setup on it and pounded the daylights out of it on a dyno, making like 800hp before running out of fuel pump and turbo. Dial that back to the 500-600hp range and it should live forever.

BBCs are great, but also limited in the head department.  Plenty of stock heads that flow a lot of quantity, but none that flow quality... and the chambers are incredibly inefficient requiring lots of fuel consumption and even more timing lead.  I've built several truck BBCs where I welded the advance weights in place and set it to 34 degrees initial and added ported vacuum.

I gave up on making big power with BBCs.  It's so hard to get decent street power with the head offerings by today's standards.  By the time you get to 10.5:1 to match a cam, you're into race gas territory to prevent the pistons from becoming dust.

While endlessly praising its predecessor the “Mystery Motor”, Smokey Yunick claimed the venerated Mark IV BBC that came out in 1965 was a hunk of junk that was severely watered down by bean counters.  It was as good as we got but it could have been so much better.  I think you’re on to something.  

How about a Ford 460? Or a 300 I6? Turbo 2.3? 2.9 Cologne V6 from a Merkur Scorpio!

I mean, as long as we're throwing ideas out there.

There's a company called Ramjets that Run. The owner rebuilds the original Ramjet fuel injection systems. I don't think they will ever work as well as a TPI, especially with a non-stock engine.

Would I put a 300 net HP 283 in a schoolbus or motorhome? No. Would that engine be ideal for an older driver puttering around town? It would burn too much fuel, cold starts would be difficult, and the powerband would be annoying. Is a 300 net HP 283 going to be OK in a 3200# car that'll be used on the open road in the summer? I think its compromises will be appropriate and it'll be a fun engine to drive.

In reply to chaparral : Collectors   At least the ones willing to step up to the plate want originality.  ( even if nothing really is original ) They also tend to drive it worse than little old ladies  and leave it in the garage endlessly obsessing about whatever trivia they obsess  about.  
Guys who really care about power  who smoke the tires or line up to race someone wouldn't care if it was made in China or Tim Buc Two as long as it was fast.  

I guess Cousin_Eddie has never seen that book that was around in the ‘90’s called ‘Chevy’s that Run’ or CTR.  Some guy started a whole cottage industry swapping V12 Jags into Corvettes and Camaros.  I’ll try to find a link to it.  

In reply to frenchyd :

No apology needed. 

I am only really only considering three options, LS, BBC, or  Coyote.    

An aftermarket aluminum head BBC is pretty good choice here, I was ready to get that Motorhome.

But now I'm really stuck on the Ford V10, because you know Chevy doesn't have any freaking V10s does it? 

And I can get a Supercharger from a 5.4 to put on it fairly cheap.  So easy 600hp here.    

I've never restored anything to stock, and actually a stock Nomad is a pretty pathetic performer.

I am putting in a C4 Corvette suspension into the Nomad, 

I have the 85 Vette for that, but I just got the better later model 88 C4 setup for it, with the 13 inch brakes for $400.  (please don't tell me a C5/6 is better, that is how I got this for $400, the seller said he had to get a C5/6 setup cuz he reads the internet!  lol)

Of you like the look of the ls v12 how about an IHRA mountain motor?  I believe they are near 1000ci  now. Chevy or Ford. A 20year old motor is probably 800ci and may even be affordable. Alternatively if you just want unusual find a VW w12. It's almost a Bugatti.

ShawnG said:

If you already have a 283, you have your answer.

It bolts in, won't wreck the parts that are already in the car and people would be hard-pressed to tell the difference between a 265 and a 283 if you use the correct valve covers, manifolds and motor mounts unless they ran the numbers on the engine. 

As for the 350. Craigslist has taught me that EVERY 350 is a Corvette engine, even the 305...

And remember, 265s are red, not orange.

+1. Unless you're modernizing suspension, tires, etc, in that case, 2jz.

Edit: You're going Corvette suspension. LS all day, and twice on Sunday.

nimblemotorsports said:

In reply to frenchyd :

No apology needed. 

I am only really only considering three options, LS, BBC, or  Coyote.    

An aftermarket aluminum head BBC is pretty good choice here, I was ready to get that Motorhome.

But now I'm really stuck on the Ford V10, because you know Chevy doesn't have any freaking V10s does it? 

And I can get a Supercharger from a 5.4 to put on it fairly cheap.  So easy 600hp here.    

I've never restored anything to stock, and actually a stock Nomad is a pretty pathetic performer.

I am putting in a C4 Corvette suspension into the Nomad, 

I have the 85 Vette for that, but I just got the better later model 88 C4 setup for it, with the 13 inch brakes for $400.  (please don't tell me a C5/6 is better, that is how I got this for $400, the seller said he had to get a C5/6 setup cuz he reads the internet!  lol)

Based on those choices, the LS is the clear winner. 
 

If you can swing it, the LT1 would be awesome. 6.2L, 460 hp, all aluminum, and Corvette badges on top. 
 

chaparral said:

There's a company called Ramjets that Run. The owner rebuilds the original Ramjet fuel injection systems. I don't think they will ever work as well as a TPI, especially with a non-stock engine.

Would I put a 300 net HP 283 in a schoolbus or motorhome? No. Would that engine be ideal for an older driver puttering around town? It would burn too much fuel, cold starts would be difficult, and the powerband would be annoying. Is a 300 net HP 283 going to be OK in a 3200# car that'll be used on the open road in the summer? I think its compromises will be appropriate and it'll be a fun engine to drive.

Rebuilding the old mechanical Fuel injection  isn't that hard. Polishing it and making it look original is harder but still doable.  
Making  it work properly forces you to think a little Hilborn and a little carburator.  But with the right test equipment it's not hard. 
As far as making it work as efficiently as modern EFI it  depends on the keyboard operator. If he understands engines, knows limits of both systems and engines chances are he will pretty well walk all over the mechanical system. If he's a monkey see, monkey do, internet trained guy, there is a chance for the old system to  do well in comparison.