Which Race Car?

OK, there are alot of factors here. I currently blew the motor on my relatively undeveloped (at least on a national level basis)EP 1st gen RX7 and the cost of a properly built 13b is about $5-6k. Upon discussion with people I know and respect I feel it would be a poor investment (What is racing is a good investment?) to try and move forward with this particular car so I have decided to buy a different, more developed car. I have 4 options at the moment and wanted opinions from racers. Please don't let your personal bias about cars color this; I have listed them in the order that I see it at the moment.

1. 1979 RX7 with a 3/4 tube frame, new 12A 95% developed car with lots of racing goodies, cool suit, blower, Stack Dash and a fair amount of spares. Added benefit is that the good parts on my car will add more spares. Price is at the max of what I want to spend.
2. 1979 RX7 less developed but a solid car, No data system, no cool suit, blower and few if any spares. Fairly fresh 12A but not nearly the car as #1. Price is 60% of number 1. 2a. Stretch and buy a Panoz for about 30% more than my max RX7 budget. I really like the simplicity and bigger size of the Panoz and being a larger guy it fits better although my RX7 is quite roomy once inside. I would run in GT2
3. Spec Miata and run in STL or STU

So those are my choices unless one of you has a car you wanna sell me cheap. Comments?

Not sure what to advise since there's no budgets/prices mentioned - other than you're willing to go 30% above your budget . Start at the end point - what's the goal? What's it take to accomplish it? What I'm reading into this is that you would really like option 1 with a built 13b in it or maybe the grass is greener in a panoz. But what you would have to spend to get what you want could get you a turnkey competitive car in a different class. Chances are the car you get for the other class will also need some development...and on it goes.

In reply to oldtin:

Budget varies. The #1 option is a lock if it is available at the quoted price. It is a very well developed car and this conversation is irrelevant. But I'm not sure whether it will be so I thought I'd ask the board for opinions. Budget is about $15k, which is about the Panoz price. The tube framed car is close to that but needs nothing and Spec M cars are all over the map based on what's in them and how demented the current owner is

What racing is in your area with the fields you want to run in?

Something like a Thunder Roadster would probably be cheaper and potentially faster right?

In reply to Jaynen: Not sure but my racing will be SCCA and NASA for this car.

If you're looking at the Rivera car, get it. A Panoz will never be competitive in GT2.

Dunno about a Panoz or Riviera car, but those RX7's with 12A's will have the problem of a rapidly shrinking (read: expensive!) pool of spare parts. The 13B stuff will be much more available for a much longer time.

I want to see you race the riviera.

If option 1 isn't available, what would it cost to tube out your car and throw in a built 13b? 10k? I'm looking at it as whatever is already in the car is a sunk cost. To me the main drawback is the time to build and final tuning to get it where you want. Otherwise, I'm thinking the outlay may not look a lot different.

If you are looking to run SCCA or NASA, the real question is what classes do the cars listed above fall into and what class do you want to race?

1st gen RX7s run ITA and generally can be found for less than $5k. I've seen some for $2,500. Some of your EP parts will swap over.

Not sure if it's worth buying an SM if you are running in STL or STU IMO. Spec Miatas hold their value pretty well and the differences between a $7 car and a $15k car is substantial - built motor, fresh tranny, all the go fast SM specific bits that won't add value to an STL or STU car. Might not even be competitive in STU in a Miata. Lots of nice S2000 and other cars running STU.

All good points guys. Yes, I am looking at a Rivera car (but not necessarily the one your thinking of) and if the offer is taken I am buying it. I am looking at alternatives if it is not taken. amg_rx7, there is a big difference between an ITA RX7 and an EP RX7. I have a line on another EP RX7 and that is my plan B. Plan C is a Spec Miata. The Panoz is out as research has shown me that Don49 is spot on as for lack of competitive ability. Too bad cause physically it is a good fit.

IMHO, you need to DECIDE where you are going to race. Then buy the most appropriate car for that class. When I read your first note, I was questioning whether we are talking E Production or E Prepared, since the racing is totally different.

But it's clear that you are at least talking road racing.

But not deciding on NASA or SCCA seems to matter a lot. And if you want to run BOTH, I suspect that the selecton of cars is much smaller.

(other than that, I'm no help.)

Alfa, I thought I was pretty clear but let me restate. I currently run in EP (production). I have considered staying there or moving to GT3 or GTL if I buy the Rivera car. I have also to a lesser degree thought about SM. RX7's can fit in all depending on mods in any of them except SM of course. I am leaning towards an RX7 at this point because I am pretty well stocked with parts but different cars present possibilities. I have no particular love for one class over another. My skill level is that of a top half-mid pack driver in most classes so while I want to be more competitive, I would be unwilling to spend what it costs to win. What I want is a front of the mid pack to rear of the front runners capable car, regardless of what class I'm in. My current car was no better than the back of the mood pack. Texas is slightly stronger in SCCA than NASA but RX7's and SM can run both so who I run with is not that critical as I will eventually run both. So, maybe this was restated better.

Although you seem to know what you're getting into with the RX-7, a Miata offers similair thrills with a lot less pain, money and hassle.

Mmadness wrote: Although you seem to know what you're getting into with the RX-7, a Miata offers similair thrills with a lot less pain, money and hassle.

Not necessarily.... I race a Spec Miata. Depending on how intent you are to run up front, it'll cost you there too. A full on PRO built race motor is $4-5k.

amg_rx7 wrote:

Mmadness wrote: Although you seem to know what you're getting into with the RX-7, a Miata offers similair thrills with a lot less pain, money and hassle.

Not necessarily.... I race a Spec Miata. Depending on how intent you are to run up front, it'll cost you there too. A full on PRO built race motor is $4-5k.

amg_rx7 is correct. Tons of $$ being spent to be up front. Also, 80% of the racing contact happen in that class on any given weekend. Despite all that I am still considering it although only if the RX7's don't pan out.

amg_rx7 wrote:

Mmadness wrote: Although you seem to know what you're getting into with the RX-7, a Miata offers similair thrills with a lot less pain, money and hassle.

Not necessarily.... I race a Spec Miata. Depending on how intent you are to run up front, it'll cost you there too. A full on PRO built race motor is $4-5k.

the thing is a miata motor WILL last longer. I think that at it's very basic is what he's getting at.

TxCoyote wrote: Alfa, I thought I was pretty clear but let me restate. I currently run in EP (production). I have considered staying there or moving to GT3 or GTL if I buy the Rivera car. I have also to a lesser degree thought about SM. RX7's can fit in all depending on mods in any of them except SM of course. I am leaning towards an RX7 at this point because I am pretty well stocked with parts but different cars present possibilities. I have no particular love for one class over another. My skill level is that of a top half-mid pack driver in most classes so while I want to be more competitive, I would be unwilling to spend what it costs to win. What I want is a front of the mid pack to rear of the front runners capable car, regardless of what class I'm in. My current car was no better than the back of the mood pack. Texas is slightly stronger in SCCA than NASA but RX7's and SM can run both so who I run with is not that critical as I will eventually run both. So, maybe this was restated better.

Reading that (and I hope you do- perhaps you answered your own question- dunno), I would suggest car #1. It's the furthest along, and has the equipment in it already to make you a better driver along with being a good car.

If being competitve wasn't a big deal out of the shop, I would say #2, but you want to be more competive, but not spend front pack money. To me, that's #1 all the way. especially since you keep leaning toward the RX7 engines, regardless of the long term availablilty.

Good luck with it! And hope you do well!

alfadriver wrote:

TxCoyote wrote: Alfa, I thought I was pretty clear but let me restate. I currently run in EP (production). I have considered staying there or moving to GT3 or GTL if I buy the Rivera car. I have also to a lesser degree thought about SM. RX7's can fit in all depending on mods in any of them except SM of course. I am leaning towards an RX7 at this point because I am pretty well stocked with parts but different cars present possibilities. I have no particular love for one class over another. My skill level is that of a top half-mid pack driver in most classes so while I want to be more competitive, I would be unwilling to spend what it costs to win. What I want is a front of the mid pack to rear of the front runners capable car, regardless of what class I'm in. My current car was no better than the back of the mood pack. Texas is slightly stronger in SCCA than NASA but RX7's and SM can run both so who I run with is not that critical as I will eventually run both. So, maybe this was restated better.

Reading that (and I hope you do- perhaps you answered your own question- dunno), I would suggest car #1. It's the furthest along, and has the equipment in it already to make you a better driver along with being a good car. If being competitve wasn't a big deal out of the shop, I would say #2, but you want to be more competive, but not spend front pack money. To me, that's #1 all the way. especially since you keep leaning toward the RX7 engines, regardless of the long term availablilty. Good luck with it! And hope you do well!

Thanks and I totally see it the same way.

kanaric wrote: "the thing is a miata motor WILL last longer. I think that at it's very basic is what he's getting at."

On a street car that would be true. On a race car, depends on the build/builder and the driver

kanaric wrote:

amg_rx7 wrote:

Mmadness wrote: Although you seem to know what you're getting into with the RX-7, a Miata offers similair thrills with a lot less pain, money and hassle.

Not necessarily.... I race a Spec Miata. Depending on how intent you are to run up front, it'll cost you there too. A full on PRO built race motor is $4-5k.

the thing is a miata motor WILL last longer. I think that at it's very basic is what he's getting at.

Haha. You haven't been to many Spec Miata races have you? It's hard to beat a normally aspirated rotary for longevity - especially in race conditions.

amg_rx7 wrote:

kanaric wrote:

amg_rx7 wrote:

Mmadness wrote: Although you seem to know what you're getting into with the RX-7, a Miata offers similair thrills with a lot less pain, money and hassle.

Not necessarily.... I race a Spec Miata. Depending on how intent you are to run up front, it'll cost you there too. A full on PRO built race motor is $4-5k.

the thing is a miata motor WILL last longer. I think that at it's very basic is what he's getting at.

Haha. You haven't been to many Spec Miata races have you? It's hard to beat a normally aspirated rotary for longevity - especially in race conditions.

You are correct amg_rx7. Unfortunately for me the wrong guy built my last motor. Won't make that mistake again.