which wide band ?

Knurled wrote:

Stefan (Not Bruce) wrote:

Gearheadotaku wrote: I don't plan on datalogging (wouldn't know how or what to do with it anyhow). Need to monitor changes I'm making to see if its getting richer or leaner. Righ now all have to go by is fuel mileage and exhaust smell.

Um, that's what data logging will tell you, without having to watch the gauge bouncing around like a crack addict watching crack dispensing pachinko machine while driving. The LC-1 for example allows you to monitor the output via a serial cable, which you can connect to a laptop and run their free software to monitor and record. Then you put the data into a spreadsheet and graph the results. You can also compare different results to track changes, etc.

I put widebands in carbureted cars all the time. I have an AEM gauge setup that I use stand-alone with a cigarette lighter plug for non-permanent tuning in carbed cars. It's really easy to work with without datalogging. I don't know what you'd datalog, anyway, without adding a bunch of other sensors to the mix.

Never mind. Forget I said anything dowatchulike.

WOW Really Paul? wrote: I really like the NTK AFX Powerdex I have. It's been inside 2 different vehicles at this point and will probably continue moving through them.

Too bad the original is long discontinued. Ballenger has a new one that uses the NTK sensor with a few small upgrades along with it.

Knurled wrote:

Stefan (Not Bruce) wrote:

Gearheadotaku wrote: I don't plan on datalogging (wouldn't know how or what to do with it anyhow). Need to monitor changes I'm making to see if its getting richer or leaner. Righ now all have to go by is fuel mileage and exhaust smell.

Um, that's what data logging will tell you, without having to watch the gauge bouncing around like a crack addict watching crack dispensing pachinko machine while driving. The LC-1 for example allows you to monitor the output via a serial cable, which you can connect to a laptop and run their free software to monitor and record. Then you put the data into a spreadsheet and graph the results. You can also compare different results to track changes, etc.

I put widebands in carbureted cars all the time. I have an AEM gauge setup that I use stand-alone with a cigarette lighter plug for non-permanent tuning in carbed cars. It's really easy to work with without datalogging. I don't know what you'd datalog, anyway, without adding a bunch of other sensors to the mix. It doesn't swing wildly around unless you're at idle with a fun camshaft, at which point any O2 readings are completely useless anyway.

All decent data loggers will do engine speed using a tach usable signal. Easy button. Some even have MAP pressure.

But that's not important

I've been calibrating for a long, long time. I've seen cars where a gauges were mounted in easy view. I hate them.

Pay attention to driving. Especially for a carbed car, you don't need to know the answer until you can work with the carb- which is at shortest- when you shut the car down. So looking at that data isn't hard or time consuming relative to the process of work.

If you want to do WOT runs on roads and stare at the A/F the whole time, go for it.

I, personally, think it's pretty stupid. BTDT.

alfadriver wrote: If you want to do WOT runs on roads and stare at the A/F the whole time, go for it. I, personally, think it's pretty stupid. BTDT.

I'm not looking at it at WOT. I'm gauging what is happening in the transition circuits, when the power valve is opening, stuff like that. The boring stuff It's a wonderful tool to have to quickly home-in on a good compromise.

And boy howdy, after watching what some "performance carbs" do over the drivability range, the tuning definitely is a compromise...

If you can wire up sensors / inputs to log AFR, RPM, manifold pressure and throttle position, that'll give you good logs to look at later. Makes it much easier to figure out exactly when the AFR spike, dip or whatever occurred compared to watching the gauge while you drive.

Knurled wrote: And boy howdy, after watching what some "performance carbs" do over the drivability range, the tuning definitely is a compromise...

Having tuned triple Webers with a wideband, I must agree with this statement. What I thought was a decent enough tune was actually quite terrible, especially the acceleration pump jet. Those with the experience to set up Webers by ear and feel have my respect.

Ordered an LC-2 (lc-1 seems to be replaced by it) We'll see how this goes.

Anyone have thoughts or input on the innovate scg-1? Thinking about ordering it for some boosted stuff I'm building

If you can wire up sensors / inputs to log AFR, RPM, manifold pressure and throttle position, that'll give you good logs to look at later.

that's exactly what I've got hooked up to my Zt-2. touch of a button on the hand held logger starts/stops recording to a micro sd card.

there's a lot more possible inputs & outputs with this thing as well as adjustable narrow band simulation output.

I think some people probably have only seen a wideband on a fuel injected car that has a thing called closed loop and fuel trim. The reading on a carb car doesn't constantly vary, it doesn't have 'o2 cross counts'. In steady state it will give you a steady reading and there's nothing tricky about interpreting that.

JoeTR6 wrote:

Knurled wrote: And boy howdy, after watching what some "performance carbs" do over the drivability range, the tuning definitely is a compromise...

Having tuned triple Webers with a wideband, I must agree with this statement. What I thought was a decent enough tune was actually quite terrible, especially the acceleration pump jet. Those with the experience to set up Webers by ear and feel have my respect.

Mine too.

Just wait until you watch what happens on a Holley equipped car. The ones I've looked at with the wideband, fuel mixtures tend to be exactly wrong for the situation... pig rich at light load, middling-to-lean under brisk acceleration, and happy again once you're into the secondaries. But they don't actively lean misfire or rich misfire so the tune must be good?

I could probably waste a LOT of time playing around with plugging/drilling air bleeds and PVCRs and messing with transition slots... or I could feel more strongly biased toward EFI on all the things.