Whoa, hold the hyperbole (early Viper content)

So, I've been reading about Vipers lately, mostly the cheap ones. That's probably, in order, the first gen, third gen and second gen. It feels like everything having anything to do with the car comes with the "you'll shoot your eye out" footnote.

"Tried to change lanes, found myself facing the wrong direction."

"It's a Viper, don't drive it in the rain."

"Wrecked mine last week."

"Spun it driving up an on ramp."

I've seen videos of them leaving the road in one direction while facing another.

This group probably isn't going to go in for hyperbole. What's the deal here? Is the Viper a death machine, does it attract stupid drivers?

Is there something about them that makes them tricky to drive in a straight line at the speed limit on anything less than a sunny, warm day? Are these folks just blaming the car and lack of driver's aids when they've put more momentum into the car than they're equipped to remove again?

So far I don't think that I have been killed in one. In fact, I don't think I have come close. Yes, they're really, really torquey. First time I drove one, I thought that the tach was broken--the car was accelerating yet the tach wasn't really climbing. It also autocrossed better than I expected. The car actually felt small out there among the cones. (This was back in 1995 or so with a then-new one.)

I have driven several since, including more early ones. Big things? That hood is long. On the street it feels big. It doesn't park like a Miata.

There's no dead pedal, either, so it can get a little tiring at times. I once drove an ACR from San Diego to L.A. In rush hour. I know, poor me, but by the end my ankle was no longer speaking to me.

The exhausts get hot. I once lightly brushed up again a side pipe and reacted by twisting my leg. I didn't get burned, but I couldn't use my knee for a half our or so. Just be careful.

They tramline a bit. The interiors are pretty basic. It's kinda crude. But that's all what makes it special.

JG has more wheel time in a Viper. I'm sure he'll chime in when he wakes up.

I think they just attract stupid people or people who are afraid of them. I actually just saw a video clip earlier of someone spreading one all over the road in pieces after pulling out of a parking lot and bouncing off the trees and light poles in the median. It seems like and powerful cars (especially rwd American cars) attract a certain amount of people who will suddenly just hold the gas pedal to the floor until the car bounces off of enough solid objects to no longer be able to move. Not really the cars fault lol.

It's a grunty engine in a car with no real assists that sounds absolutely great when you stomp on the gas.

Shocker, lots of people stomp on the gas

I bet most supercars are crashed a lot. Power delivery from a big block can be almost brutal itself even if only a perception.

Years ago I had a student with an early Viper roadster at Mosport. I jumped in and drove it for a few laps at his request.

I found it very easy to drive...at least at the 7/10ths we were doing. Plenty of grip and brakes (no ABS on this one). Good power, but hardly overwhelming considering the available grip. Seemed pretty benign to me.

Then again, I have no idea how it would do at the limit or in foul weather. That's when you can really tell if the chassis is set up well.

I remember driving on a wet 2-lane highway and seeing headlights up ahead, suddenly facing me, on the right shoulder. Turns out to be...a Viper, believe it or not, backwards against the guard rail on the inside of a bend. But, hey, any car with a million horsepower and extremely wide tires can be tricky in the rain.

I had a '99 GTS. Yeah, they attract a lot of stupid drivers. Lots of shiny happy people...I went to a few Viper club meetings and that was all I needed, never went back. Driving wise, I never raced mine, so I can't speak for its' track behavior. Street driving, David hit it right on the head. Lots of torque, though the car wasn't as fast as the FFR Cobra I had sold just prior to the Viper. It was quieter than a V10 brute should be, so you didn't realize how fast you were going. Driving position sucked. It needed adjustable pedals or telescoping steering wheel. Cabin got hot, due to the exhaust. A/C had trouble keeping up in the summer...my car being all black didn't help matters. The car tramlined like mad. Any road that had a crest to it or a rut was a white knuckle experience. Vision out of the car was a lot like driving a C3 Corvette. It's all nose, can't really see the front of the car. Only drove it once or twice in the rain, but I do recall that as long as you treated it with above average care, it wasn't all bad.

Lots of salvage ones on the road, because the OEM hood price is outrageous. Even a bump that doesn't do anything more than cosmetic front end damage (hood, bumper cover, headlights) will total a normal Viper.

It was the sexiest car I ever had, hands down. On a pool table smooth road, it was a lot of fun to drive. Hell, it could even knock back 25-28mpg cruising the highway. But from a street driving enjoyment factor, it wasn't as great as you would hope for.

I never felt uncomfortable or out of control in the 3500 miles I put on my 97 GTS.

"That's not a real Viper"

You hear a lot of horrible things about Porsche 930s too. Trailing throttle overseer catches a lot of people out, particularly when coming up on traffic that you couldn't see at the beginning of the bend.

I'd blame the shiny happy people on the street, but I've seen a '10 ACR pretty far from the pavement at Putnam Park, so I dunno what to blame.

Cactus wrote: Trailing throttle overseer catches a lot of people out, particularly when coming up on traffic that you couldn't see at the beginning of the bend.

That's always a fun one in cars prone to it... It's why I won't follow anyone even remotely closely on a dirt road (especially if downhill corners are involved). It's not an issue on pavement, but lift throttle / trailing throttle oversteer is a big issue in that thing on dirt. There's 3 ways to go around a corner on dirt with it: slowly, quickly with enough throttle applied for most of the corner or an in-between speed without enough throttle applied and a significant amount of sideways...

Lots of cars have handling quirks. You just have to be aware of them, train yourself to work with them and drive around them as needed and try not to put yourself in situations where they'll bite you badly.

I have no Viper experience, but this is America, I'd default to blaming the drivers. Almost nobody here can drive worth a damn and some of these people get a little money and buy a Viper or something similar. I bet these people crashing their Vipers would have crashed any "rear wheel drive car on 20 year old high performance tires" they happened to be driving in the rain at the time.

Almost 15% of Vipers sold to new owners are crashed in the first year at least that is the statistic that I was told.

Having said that they are fantastically easy to drive at 7/10th, they are absolutely killers at 7.01/10ths. That line in the sand depends on the generation of Viper. They have this weird knife edge where at street and normal owner speeds they are big docile Miata's then they turn into violent killers when you get them really moving. Specifically when you do not know how to drive and you think its going to continue to act in the same way it was at normal speeds.

Also they tend not to squeal the tires when you are approaching the limits. Plus when you make a mistake you tend to be going so fast that recovery on the track is best stated as both feet in.

I am not kidding when I say my Gen IV ACR is basically a giant spec miata. They drive very similar until abou 8.5-9/10ths. Then all hell brakes loose and well frankly you are more then likely going slower per lap pushing it.

All those folks complaining about the Vipers handling should have a driver's license with a reduced power to weight ratio and a tire width limitation, auto trans only.....

I did a track day at Barber in a Viper. I thought it was a big friendly car that turned in and corner similar to a Miata. I never once had an issue. Of course I rode with a few other Viper drivers and you can see where the issues lie. One guy I rode with did exactly one lap and I made him bring me in. He was jerking it at speed from side to side and when you tried to point out what he was doing, his reply was that I looked so slow why would he want to do that. I think I was probably 20 something seconds a lap faster. Sadly, he wasn't alone in his driving style, nor was he willing to take any instruction from anyone. My impression at the time is that many of the owners had cars like Hemi GTXs and the sort, and spent most their time at the drag strip. Not taking anything away from that, but the experience in something like a Viper was lacking.

Nothing to add except that I have seen 2 first gen Vipers on the road this week.

That's because most of those people are buying them with the check their insurance gives them after mowing down a crowd of pedestrians in their Mustang leaving a C&C event.

I drove one in '03 or '04 on the small track at Skip Barber (at Lime Rock). The pavement was perfect, etc. and I was surprised at how docile it was. Speeds were limited because of the tiny track, so I'm sure people can get into trouble with a whole lot of room, but I've been bitten much harder by my stock '92 Mustang GT on aged-out tires in the rain.

racerdave600 wrote: One guy I rode with did exactly one lap and I made him bring me in. He was jerking it at speed from side to side and when you tried to point out what he was doing, his reply was that I looked so slow why would he want to do that.

There is a lot of explanation happening here...

I firmly believe the majority of Viper owners are terrified of their cars. Rightfully so.

It's funny, the viper is the only car that meets the criteria for purchase at the "exotics racing" type facilities. But it's never present. Likely because, as stated, no nannies.

The problem for the viper is they tell the driver "this car has a ton of power" and then say "but don't worry, it can also take corners well!" What they never say is "however, please don't atttempt both at the same time."

I was told "don't touch the gas pedal until that steering wheel is straight." "They" were right.

So, given the nature of the Viper, the general public's driving skills and the cost of replacement front body work, would it be looked down upon to buy a Viper that was "totalled" and just run it without fixing the body?

Inquiring minds want to know

EDIT: Like this one. Fix it just enough to be road legal?

Funny, I never once while driving the Viper thought it was overpowered. I've driven much worse cars in that regard. For sure you need throttle control on corner exit, but after driving mid engine cars for years, I thought it was so tame it was closer to a Chevette! Try driving a high HP MR2 Turbo and coming off throttle mid corner, most people would think the grim reaper is sitting next to them.

Personally, I think Chrysler did a good job with each iteration of the Viper. They are not for everyone, but I certainly wouldn't put them in the evil category.

Trackmouse wrote: The problem for the viper is they tell the driver "this car has a ton of power" and then say "but don't worry, it can also take corners well!" What they never say is "however, please don't atttempt both at the same time." I was told "don't touch the gas pedal until that steering wheel is straight." "They" were right.

I respectfully disagree with that statement. They are one of the most planted cars in the corners when you add power correctly. Doing it correctly is the issue for most drivers. Plus they take right foot correction in corners very well, throttle for the most part is very nice as long as you are under say 4K RPM. Above that "there be monsters".

I have given people rides in mine at the track only to have them say, it should not be able to do that, then throw up once they get out. I enjoy this happening more then I let on.

Also almost every single garaged or "investment" Viper that I have ever seen it sitting on old out of code date tires, or cheaper street tires that are starting to crack. No amount of driver skill can overcome cheap tires in a Viper.